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Post by RedRidge on Nov 11, 2014 17:42:33 GMT -5
I think I'll jump in and add an opinion about liking the black ones... I have all the colors, I live in the southeast (read as hot and humid), and at least 80% of all the flies at any given time on my farm are found on the black cattle. Because the red and dun attract remarkably fewer flies, I have developed a fondness for red and dun over black. ;-) Just an observation...
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Post by lakeportfarms on Nov 11, 2014 18:00:38 GMT -5
I'll throw my support to Marion and Patti's posts. If you're looking to raise a commercial type of product, the usual outlets for the sale of that type of cattle are not going to be kind to you. If you're looking to develop your own market and direct sales as well as your own consumption then many of your customers are going to be looking for a healthier alternative. Otherwise they save the large outlay of cash and purchase individually what they want and when they want it at the grocery or meat store/butcher, even if the individual cuts are more expensive per pound.
That doesn't mean you can't feed grain, but it probably does preclude the use of growth implants, heavy antibiotic use or medicated feed, and the Dexters should be raised in a nice environment with as much pasture and space to roam as possible over their lifespan.
We have a demand for both grass finished, and to a lesser extent grain finished steers. In our case, we select the non-carriers for the grain, and the carriers for the grass finished steers. Not all of our customers are looking for 450 lbs. of hanging weight either, many are happy with the 350-400 lb. sizes. We don't usually sell halves, and our customers like the fact that they are getting the entire finished product.
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Post by triplec on Nov 11, 2014 19:24:57 GMT -5
I have not said anything about raising a retail commercial product. I have said I am raising beef for me. I understand that grass fed beef has a market for the health minded person. I don’t believe they are the only people that would buy a whole beef if given the opportunity. Purchasing a whole beef is a more economical way to buy beef. I have done it myself. The problems as you know are it traditionally produces more than a single family wants with huge steaks and way more hamburger than I want. When splitting a beef you end up missing certain cuts. I am trying to get answers on using Dexters to get a whole but with smaller cuts but getting it in the most economical way. The longer you own livestock the more it costs in feed, time and etc. All on this board have raised beef to their liking or market opportunities. There is as much research done promoting both sides of issues such a health benefits of grass feed beef and dangers of implants. I am on the side of implants are safe and benefits of grass feed beef is over hyped when eating a well rounded diet. Many people are making the extra dollar off of current trends. I would rather save the dollar in production cost.
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Post by kansasdexters on Nov 11, 2014 20:45:59 GMT -5
Here is a good article on the use of growth promoters (implants) in cattle: www.iowabeefcenter.org/information/IBC48.pdfI found it interesting that research has shown that implanted cattle tend to develop more muscle and less fat, such that if they aren't fed a higher calorie diet (grain), then they tend to have a better yield grade, but a lower quality grade (less marbling). They need to be fed the extra calories from a grain diet in order to be properly finished. Patti
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Post by lakeportfarms on Nov 12, 2014 6:08:28 GMT -5
I have not said anything about raising a retail commercial product. I have said I am raising beef for me. I understand that grass fed beef has a market for the health minded person. I don’t believe they are the only people that would buy a whole beef if given the opportunity. Purchasing a whole beef is a more economical way to buy beef. I have done it myself. The problems as you know are it traditionally produces more than a single family wants with huge steaks and way more hamburger than I want. When splitting a beef you end up missing certain cuts. I am trying to get answers on using Dexters to get a whole but with smaller cuts but getting it in the most economical way. The longer you own livestock the more it costs in feed, time and etc. All on this board have raised beef to their liking or market opportunities. There is as much research done promoting both sides of issues such a health benefits of grass feed beef and dangers of implants. I am on the side of implants are safe and benefits of grass feed beef is over hyped when eating a well rounded diet. Many people are making the extra dollar off of current trends. I would rather save the dollar in production cost. Triplec, you also did not say you were only going to raise the beef for only yourself, other than a small reference about "putting it in the freezer for family". None of us here know much about you at all... We ALL raise them to put one in the freezer for ourselves, but most of us also have enough to sell to others, and we're trying to help you with our experiences. You've said you are looking for the most economical way to fill your freezer, and aren't particularly concerned about the availability of beef that has had implants, been fed corn, etc... and not the health reasons. You may have some facilities, but if you don't already have 100% of the infrastructure, including necessary handling facilities like a headgate/squeeze chute, adequate fencing, tractor and hay handling equipment (unless you're feeding square bales) a trailer with a truck to pull it (unless you can borrow one or plan to butcher it yourself), the most economical way is often to purchase your beef from somebody with a larger herd, who can spread the cost of all of the equipment and facilities (and time) over more cattle, because you'll be surprised how much this all adds up to. I hope you have somebody experienced with cattle that can look after your animals if you decide to take a week or two off for a vacation somewhere...among other things that can come up. I suppose if you have a high outside income it's a way to use depreciation and other short term losses as a way to offset your income, but I sure hope the IRS agent thinks it's reasonable to have all those expenses for one or two cows, with no farm related income whatsoever! I don't understand if you're raising it only for yourself why the big rush? Do you plan to eat more than you otherwise would on your own? With higher and faster outputs, you'll always need higher inputs. I'd dare say our grass fed and finished steers when run with our other cows don't cost us any more than the ones that are fed purchased grain. It is just spread over a longer period of time. Unlike buying a whole or half Dexter (or some other breed) from somebody like those of us here who have them for sale, it's a commitment, and you also better be happy with your results, or you have a whole lot of beef that you're going to be choking down after spending all of that money. As Patti linked in her recent post, implants can result in a better yield grade, but not a better quality grade. I agree completely, pushing an animals production doesn't result in a better product. We also raise Highlands, they are very slow to mature, I couldn't think about butchering one before 30 months of age, but the finished result is completely different (better) than from the commercial breed steer that was fast growing with high feed rations and butchered at 18 months of age. I have some Highland heifers that are 4 years old who have only just now had their first calf. But Highlands also live productive lives well into their upper teens and 20's with minimal intervention compared to our Dexters. And I have a long waiting list for Highland beef. They are making do with other breeds until then, and are looking forward to the day I have one for them. Before you go an say you have these things in a condescending manner remember none of us have been to your farm and don't know if you have all of this or not. You better determine what you plan to do in the years your cow(s) have heifers, because you'll either be butchering them or selling them, and still looking for beef that somebody else has raised. With current beef prices, my steers are in way more demand than heifers.
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Post by RedRidge on Nov 12, 2014 6:48:51 GMT -5
Wow that last sentence is so true right now. I'm hoping every cow here has a bull calf next year. I rarely keep heifers and selling them is a pain in the rear. The steers are sold with no effort before they even hit the ground.
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Post by hollydzie on Nov 12, 2014 9:35:04 GMT -5
Nice post Hans...
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Post by lonecowhand on Nov 13, 2014 19:02:26 GMT -5
triplec, raise some Big Ol' Angus, and leave the Dexters to their grassy pastures. They'll get bigger, faster, and sell well at the auction.
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Post by cddexter on Nov 14, 2014 0:17:26 GMT -5
Over the last 30+ years, and a reasonably sized herd of 65 on average, I found they go through the same stages as humans: baby fat, bone growth, muscle growth, fat depostis. In my experience, around 12 months they start the bone growth phase and most of what you feed them goes into that, which is a waste of money and feed. Around 18 or 19 months, they start the muscle growth phase, which slows down around 28 plus months. I've butchered at 12 months, 17 months, 20 months, 24 months and 29 months. The best return on cost to finish was from the 29 month, the worst from the 17 month. My animals were all line bred so I had a fairly strong genetic consistency..
Also, Dexters tend to marble before they cover, whereas I think Angus and Hereford are the opposite. What you see isn't exactly what you get with a Dexter. Why not try different methods, and see how you do?
cheers, carol davidso.
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Post by J & M Chambers on Nov 14, 2014 10:20:52 GMT -5
I have not followed all of this thread so I apologize if off a bit but did see discussion about time. Call us stuck in our ways or 'rooted' to the past but several generations of our family lines of grandfathers and uncles would look at us askance at a minimum and have discussions about our mental capacity if we were carrying steers over two winters here in the Midwest. Our aim from the start has been to get our dexter steers to a high quality carcass efficiently in 20 months or less. We also come from a very long line of long lived, grain-finished beef eaters so our family prefers beef with the mouth-melting finish of a beeve finished with some corn in their ration. Ours receive a light ration of corn and a 14% protein feed over the final 60 to 90 days- (we used to also incorporate home grown oats but we stopped raising oats). We also are not raising our beef for a wide commercial market simply for our table and our family's table I'm not trying to talk anyone into our way of beef, although it is without question the most delicious , and really don't waste your breath trying to talk me into grass finished regardless of the methods. No thank you. I just wanted to get out there that it is certainly economical and efficient to finish dexters at less than 20 months and have absolutely DELICIOUS beef in sufficient quantities for the family table. We've got some carcass data on our website but I need to update it with several more years - the results have been essentially the same. Averages: [19 months, 785 lbs live weight, 460 lbs hanging weight, 58.7% carcass yield, 279 lbs box yield - hung 18 to 21 days] SMD Beef Carcass dataBon appetit Jeff
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Post by cddexter on Nov 14, 2014 10:37:11 GMT -5
great info, Jeff. I gues it depends on where one is...I'm on a large island where the arable soil is in pockets, and we don't grow grain, it's all 'imported' from the mainland. This involves ferry fares (almost $500 one way for a semi, regardless of load) so grain here is about $15/45 lb bag. I've finished by feeding maybe five lbs/day for around 40 days, and it does give a nice finish, but much more than that, and especially if you are doing more than just one animal, and it's not only the bull but my bank account that gets finished... cheers, c.
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Post by triplec on Nov 14, 2014 11:53:42 GMT -5
Thanks Jeff That is more of the information I was looking for.
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dexterlady
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Wife, mother of two daughters and five grand children
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Post by dexterlady on Nov 15, 2014 0:19:24 GMT -5
Jeff, you said you finish your animal with a light ration of corn and a 14% protein feed....Is your protein "cubes" or a grain protein?....I live in Texas and I have a cow to take in around February....I am wondering how to finish her so she will be tender...So how would you suggest to finishing her?...Right now she is just on pasture and a protein tub....She has eighteen acres to graze on with one other cow, who is pregnant.....( She is not PG.) She is six or seven yrs. old...( Bad udder)So, if anyone else has any ideas, I am open to suggestions....Thanks...Donna
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Post by hollydzie on Nov 15, 2014 10:20:12 GMT -5
Hi Donna, we used this product the last 3 months before butchering a 23 month old steer. I first bought a different product and I saw the oats and corn in the manure, and thought, if he is pooping it out, is he getting any nutrition from it?. So I switched to this which is a pellet. He had a nice cover of fat and was super tender. I was worried at first because I did not see marbling in the steaks. But since Dexters have a "finer" grain of muscling the steaks have been delicious, juicy and tender. I think we have pretty much the same type of pasture in FL that you have in TX. We also use PDQ 20 mineral and have a 30% protein tub out at all times as well as Tifton 44 hay. I fed him about 3 lbs of the pellets once a day. Hope this helps. Holly purinamills.com/cattle/products/purina-stocker-grower/ In Florida we do not have pasture that allows us to just finish on pasture. I do however try to limit the feed I use. PS we did NOT use the medicated formula.
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Post by hollydzie on Nov 15, 2014 10:34:32 GMT -5
We've got some carcass data on our website but I need to update it with several more years - the results have been essentially the same. Averages: [19 months, 785 lbs live weight, 460 lbs hanging weight, 58.7% carcass yield, 279 lbs box yield - hung 18 to 21 days] SMD Beef Carcass data Read more: dextercattle.proboards.com/thread/4355/long-time-viewer-first-poster?page=2#ixzz3J9RmA7llOurs was about 23 months old, 600 live (estimate), hung at 343 and got back 210 box. He hung for 14 days. One point I would like to make is that Dexters are not all created equal. This steer was out of a "traditional" Dexter she was slight built and very hard to keep weight on, what some would call a more dairy type. She passed this genetic fault on to her calf. We have since gotten rid of this "type" of Dexter and are purchasing animals known for their beefiness. Their is a wide rage of Dexters out there and I think that plays a huge part in how quick and how well your animal will finish... JMO
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