HELP! Recently castrated calf running temp, vet left town!

[zephyrhillsusan]

I've been trying since before Thanksgiving to get my best vet to come castrate Wellie, give his vax, etc., but he has had life in the way, kept saying he'd do it.  I tried to call and email recently, and email came back & he doesn't return calls when I leave my number on his pager.  So I gave up on him and finally, Wednesday morning got my 2nd string vet to come and castrate 8 1/2 month old Wellie. He disinfected, cut him, gave tetanus anti-toxin and vaccines, including tetanus. He didn't bleed too much, vet said he would be swollen for a few days. No stitches, he said it needed to drain.

I sprayed 1/2% iodine on it per vet's instructions, kept him up in barnyard with mom with clean hay for bedding, picking up manure, etc. I gave him 10 g of Probios paste while he was in the chute.

Yesterday morning he was cudding, but I wanted him up to check him. He was really hard to get up, and moved slowly, but bleeding had stopped. He was swollen, about what I would have expected, but this is the first castration we've ever seen (all heifers previously).

This morning he was laying partly on his side, looked like he was trying to keep his legs spread out and off his swollen scrotum. When he got up, I could see his rumen was hollow. He did start eating hay, but he looks peaky so I took his temp. Btw, it was 24° out. The digital thermometer was being wonky and first registered 105.8. I was horrified and reset the thermometer. Took it twice and it registered 103.9°.

I was still worried so I called the vet to see if he would come out and look at him, thinking he probably needs an antibiotic. The vet has gone out of town and has no one who can do farm calls and hasn't asked another vet to cover for him!  It never in a million years occurred to me to ask him if he was going to be around in case I needed him. That's a mistake I'll never make again, but right now I need advice.

I told the receptionist that his temp was 103.9° (Should have just said 104°) She said they are slammed and would talk to the small animal (young, new, doesn't know much about cows) vet and call back. She called back to say that Dr. C. says "103 isn't very high because normal temp is 102," but he will call me back "later" when they aren't so slammed. I told her it is 104°, not 103° and she said she'll pass the message on. He says he'll call me about picking up an antibiotic at the office. Their office is 45 minutes away one way, and I'm here alone all day. I'll go get the abx, but I don't know if I can get this sturdy, short little guy into the squeeze chute again to give him his shot. I also have no confidence in this vet to give me the right abx, I'm sorry to say.

I tried again to call my 1st string vet, but can't get through to him. I know one other bovine vet that we have had occasionally. He is handicapped and tends to be more passive than active, although he's nice. Do you think it's worth calling him to tell him that someone else castrated my calf, then left town, and he's running a fever? I don't want to insult him, but I'm so worried about poor Wellie.

What would you all do?

Moderators, after this gets some answers, please feel free to move it to the Health section, but I wanted it to get seen quickly.  If anyone wants to call me with advice, my number is four two three-653-eighty-eight, forty seven.  I just have to warn you, if one of the vets calls back, I'll have to go! 

[midhilldexters]

Susan, I'm sure you must have a broad spec antibiotic on hand, and I would use it, plus do you have Banamine or equivalent? Use that also. The antibiotic will carry him through the weekend until your vet is available and the Banamine will help with any inflammation.
We banded three steers last year and one got a slight infection which I hit with LA 200 just once and he was fine. Keep the cut open so it can drain, they do walk with a stiffness for a couple of days.
That's what I would do, monitor take temp twice a day and if worse call any vet you can get a hold of.

Carol

[zephyrhillsusan]

Thanks so much, Carol! I just heard back from my best vet, and he said I can meet him up north and he'll give me Excede or Draxxin. I'll ask him for Banamine, too. I'll ask his advice on how to get the incision open as it isn't draining any more. It's not supposed to get above freezing today, and the calf is chondro positive and quite short, so not much room for error to try to get any water back there without drenching his whole rear end.

[Dahdo]

Carol's advice sounds spot on to me. We have only cut two and had no complications. The rest have been banded and one of those had some swelling above the band that went down after a few days of antibiotics. Good luck, keep us posted.

[lakeportfarms]

Draxxing and Excede are usually used for respiratory infections, not this, but perhaps it's not used on other things because it is quite expensive ($450/bottle). The advantage of it is that it is long acting and you don't need as many injections (5 days or so). As Carol mentioned LA200 is the usual antibiotic used for other infections, though it's a short duration antibiotic and you probably need to administer it daily for 7-10 days.

[cddexter]

Hi Susan,
Carol's advice seems spot on. If you can get close enough to get a halter on him, rope is easiest, you can tie him up to a corner somewhere, and give him a shot in the neck, easier to control him as you are closer to the source of restraint. Just watch out for your feet-it's painful when you get stepped on A firm body block with your hip against his shoulder should do the trick. Keep us in the loop, and good luck. c.

[midhilldexters]

Susan Good luck and let us know how he's doing.
I would highly suggest you always have a broad spectrum antibiotic on hand for things like this, plus some Prevail/Banamine. It's a cheap insurance plan, saves you all this hassle when you do get an issue, they really are just basics that you need to have at your farm. Vets these days can be hard to get a hold of, and waiting for one can be the difference between a good or bad outcome.

Carol

[lakeportfarms]

The absolute essential medicines to have on hand that cover most issues are BoSe or MuSe, Banamine, Dexamethasone, Draxxin, LA200, Penicillin, Tetanus Toxoid, Lutalyse, and related but not really medicines are Vitamin B, and electrolyte solutions. Rarely have we required the use of anything else. Obviously those milking may add some things, and I may have missed a couple, feel free to add to the list.

[cddexter]

Good heavens, Hans, what a list. Sounds like you have ordinary cattle. Regular Liquimycin for a quick jolt, LA200 for sustained protection, bloat drench (used it once in 30 years), gentian violet, and electrolytes are all I ever kept around. Didn't need Lutalyse as I used prevention, not intervention.

Time's passing susan, how's it going? cheers, c.

[triplec]

I hope everything goes well. If he was mine I would not be too worried. He was stressed and has a small temp. I do find it interesting that people on here are hitting him with the kitchen sink of antibiotics. The discussion of over use of antibiotic could be made. Yes a temp is a sign of infection but I don't think you have to bring out ever bottle of antibiotic the vet has in this case. When is the last time you made sure the thermometer was checked for calibration? Could It be off?

[zephyrhillsusan]

Thanks, everyone, sorry for the long delay in the update. It was about a 2 hour round trip just to meet the vet. Here's the update:

I called my neighbor who grew up with cattle, and he came over with his son, both big husky guys. We got him in the chute with no trouble and tied his head. I gave 10 cc Excede behind the ear, per vet's instructions. He said it's a bit over the dose for his probable weight (I didn't know at the time), but better over than under. I taped Wellie at about 400 lbs. and gave 2 shots of Banamine in his neck for a total of 4cc. (The biggest syringe the vet had was only 3.5 cc, and I wanted the full dose. I'll have to get more syringes for tomorrow.)

Our neighbor Randy checked Wellie's scrotum good and did not feel any heat. I checked, too, and concur with no heat, but it's swollen and firm. It definitely was not draining any more. I didn't have a camera and couldn't get a photo, but I'll try to describe it. The slit is maybe an inch up from the bottom on the back part of the scrotum, along the midline. There is a "ball" of red tissue about the size of a small walnut protruding from the incision. I scrubbed the area good with very warm water with tea tree oil in it. I cleaned off a lot of dried bloody drainage, etc. Wellie didn't like it, but the "ball" of tissue did not seem to elicit a reaction when I scrubbed it. Randy thought I should use the last sterile needle to see if there was any pus in the "ball" of tissue, which I hesitated to do, but ended up doing because I figured it would only open up drainage. I could aspirate a tiny amount of blood, but no pus, so it seems to be a sort of hematoma. Randy thought it was the scrotal sac lining. I thought I'd brought iodine out, but it turned out to be hydrogen peroxide, so I squirted that all over the area and with my gloves, ran my finger around the edges of the incision and into it, loosening it from around the "ball" of tissue. Then I squirted more H2O2 on it and let Wellie go.

I'm about to head out to get the manure up from the barnyard. I forgot to do the Probios again, so when DH gets home I'll get him to help me hold Wellie and give that to him. At the same time I'll put oregano oil on the incision area; I know some people use it for mastitis, and it was recommended to use it for this.

I'll keep up the probiotics for at least a week since the Excede lasts that long.

I asked the vet about some of the other antibiotics, and he likes Excede for its broad spectrum and only having to give one shot, plus only a 4-day butcher withdrawal for the meat. Although of course we are not going to need to worry about that! He had enough concern that Wellie's temp was 104° in 24° weather that he felt the antibiotic was necessary.

It turned out I did have Banamine, so now I have extra, and I have mastitis meds, but no antibiotics. I have to go to the co-op to get more needles for more Banamine; the vet wants me to give it until he's feeling better and eating better, and I plan to stock up on more bloat drench. I'll look and see what else is available from your lists. I have a bovine medical kit, but it obviously needs a few more things. Actually, this vet is so reasonable, the most expensive thing was the bottle of Banamine. I haven't recalibrated the thermometer, but it's a digital, and the last time I took an cow's temp it was normal, so I'm going to trust the reading. I know there is an issue of overuse of antibiotics, but I really, really trust this vet, and if he thinks the calf needs it, I'm going with his advice. Tomorrow is the weekend, and it's not a good time to try to get help if he should suddenly go south.

Before I could post this the other vet (partner of the one who did the surgery) called back. He's of the wait and see, give electrolytes mentality, so I just didn't mention what all I've done. He said if Wellie isn't better tomorrow he would try to come out or I could pick up an antibiotic. I asked what he'd use, and he said Nufluor. I will follow his suggestion and offer Wellie some electrolytes and a bit of grain with Probios on it.

Well, I need to get to the co-op for more syringes and then do some manure removal! Thanks for all your input!

[lakeportfarms]

Feb 13, 2015 13:47:24 GMT -5 cddexter said:

Good heavens, Hans, what a list. Sounds like you have ordinary cattle. Regular Liquimycin for a quick jolt, LA200 for sustained protection, bloat drench (used it once in 30 years), gentian violet, and electrolytes are all I ever kept around. Didn't need Lutalyse as I used prevention, not intervention.

Time's passing susan, how's it going? cheers, c.

It's not like I use them all every week Carol.  I have used each of them at one time or another though, and I'd rather be prepared than not. Sometimes things happen. Other than the Draxxin none of the things I listed is prohibitively expensive.  Though we have a good vet that shows up pretty quickly when we call, there have been times when he knows we have something on hand and doesn't need to show up, he just tells us what to do.  No charge, no farm call.  That saves us a bunch of money in the long run, and prevents the very thing that Susan is going through right now trying to chase down the vet somewhere.  

It's also a bit different when you have herd numbers upwards of 140.  If a young calf is getting a respiratory infection I'd rather treat it right away on one, than risk it spreading to a bunch of others and then trying to treat it on all of them.

[midhilldexters]

Glad all is well, Banamine kicks in really quick so that should help. Be careful as I believe, but check your bottle, that you shouldn't use it for more than 3 days.

Carol K

[midhilldexters]

Oops, should have added that I found it interesting that the cut was made an inch up from the bottom of the scrotum. Many vets cut the bottom of the scrotum off and take the testicles out that way, then it drains out of the bottom. With a slit part way up, it won't drain as well. Maybe just the way your vet does it??

Carol K

[zephyrhillsusan]

midhilldexters, you are totally right about the incision.  Never having seen one done, I had no idea.  Randy was astonished at how it was done, said they always used to cut off the bottom of the scrotal sac, which allowed it to drain.  I totally see that.  I managed to get photos (I hope) of the "ball" of tissue protruding, and I'll try to post them.  I can definitely see that your way is the better way to do it to allow drainage.

And you're right that the Banamine kicking in helped a lot.  I think I saw the difference tonight already.  He hadn't nursed much when I went out about 4 pm, so my DD who was here offered to milk Siobhan for me while I picked up all the manure and got their hay.  After she was done milking, Wellie went and had a good nursing, and then he tucked into his hay.  I was so thankful and really put his improved appetite down to the pain relief.  (By the way, my vet mentioned that Banamine actually binds to toxins in the blood and helps remove them; I thought that was interesting.)  I made a trip to the co-op so I'll have plenty of syringes for Banamine for the next few days.

While I was at the co-op I laid in a few more supplies.  I thought I had a good medical kit considering we only have five Dexters, but hopefully I'm better set up now.  I did leave the B-complex and Vitamin A because I don't feel those are going to be emergencies.  Our co-op is open 6 days a week, so I guess we can survive Sundays without them. Still need to order the trocar, but I will do that, too.  I was going to buy IV tubing, but I don't have the bottles and neither did the co-op, so I think I'll just get some CMPK and the tubing through Valley Vet.

Anyway, thank you all for the responses!  Btw, per someone else's suggestion, I think I'll refrain in future from doing immunizations and castration at the same time, just to be sure it's not the vax causing the temp.  From now on, I really want the castration done within the first week.  No more 8 month olds.   But I want you to know I really appreciate all your responses!