zephyrhillsusan
member
Caught Dexteritis in Dec. 2009. Member of this forum since Oct. 2013.
Posts: 1,502
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Post by zephyrhillsusan on Feb 28, 2015 8:40:48 GMT -5
Oh, dear, c., do I even want to ask why you didn't qualify to be on the committee? Still need that "dislike" button!
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Post by kansasdexters on Feb 28, 2015 11:24:37 GMT -5
Back then (and it may still be this way) in order to be on any of the ADCA committees, we had to be "invited" to be on a committee. It was the ADCA Vice-President's responsibility to ask various ADCA members to be on the committees, make the committee assignments, and then to submit the lists of committee members to the ADCA Board of Directors for approval at the beginning of each year. Every committee had to be "Chaired", at least on paper, by a Regional Director, whether that Director actually participated, or even wanted to serve or not.
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Post by cddexter on Feb 28, 2015 14:07:55 GMT -5
Yup, and that ain't all, folks. But those of you who belong to the ADCA need to have faith in your assn, so we'll leave it with Patti's comments...feel free to extrapolate at will, tho'. It was an old boys club, and in many respects, still is. Petty power attracts a certain type of person. I think Patti's point about classification is classic: yes we have a committee, yes it did its work, no we won't support it. But, think about the current issue of parentage verification and genetic defect testing: how many BoD members are on side with those, either. See, plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose..In this case the squeaky wheel doesn't get the grease, it gets the boot. cheers, c.
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Post by Julie on Feb 28, 2015 15:09:05 GMT -5
I enjoy reading and studying any info on conformation so I appreciate this thread! I am a new member of the ADCA, but I believe that things are changing and the current board is trying to move forward in a very positive way. I have had great conversations with 2 regional directors this week and I am very pleased with what the board is hoping to accomplish with regards to education. I am hopeful that any past political issues can be water under the bridge because no one should spend any more time/energy on being negative. Let's all help each other. Thanks!
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zephyrhillsusan
member
Caught Dexteritis in Dec. 2009. Member of this forum since Oct. 2013.
Posts: 1,502
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Post by zephyrhillsusan on Feb 28, 2015 19:18:06 GMT -5
I'll add to this that our new Regional Director is a great communicator, is very proactive and clearly loves Dexters. I'm excited about the future. I am sorry for the loss of written resources and the failure to use human resources that happened in the past. It's a shame, it truly is. However, I hope and believe that things are changing for the better. I came into the Dexter breed after the PHA issue and the PDCA split, and I know very little about either one. (Which is probably best!) I do know that I want to do everything in my own power to help our great breed weather current issues, such as PV, and come out on the other side stronger and better. For me, that means us weathering it together as an association, which is going to take a lot of cooperation. Is it a pipe dream? I hope not! I believe that the board is really behind making PV work for the benefit of the breed in a way that will ease the transition as much as possible. Change is slow, especially in an organization, and sometimes it's hard to be patient. Each one of us has a slightly different agenda, and it takes time and LOTS of cooperation to work things out in a constructive, peaceful way. Getting back to the conformation topic, I just want to say that I appreciate the generosity of people like cddexter and kansasdexters, among others, who share from their wealth of experience to help us newcomers learn the finer points. I believe that getting proficient at evaluating conformation is like learning to speak a new language. It takes some good instruction and lots of practice! And--speaking from experience as one who learned French late in life--it probably involves quite a few embarrassing mistakes! At least with cattle you can eat your mistakes. What do you do with the French baker laughing his head off because you just asked him if there are condoms in the bread???
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Post by triplec on Feb 28, 2015 20:07:37 GMT -5
I am interested in the background of some of the people that have replied. It seems that most have replied from a producers point of view. Are there any certified show judges in the crowd? In the major cattle breeds there can be a huge difference of what you see in the pastures and what is seem in the showring. Is this also the case for Dexters? This thread makes me remember judging cattle via pictures or video on ag classes. It was never as accurate or exciting as looking at live cattle. I think it would be fun on another thread to have four participants in a online 4 photo show. That would allow some to compare some of the finer or less desirable points with feedback from a qualified judge. It would only be for fun done right it could be done with anonymity.
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Post by legendrockranch on Mar 1, 2015 13:16:15 GMT -5
A fun little quiz to test your knowledge of conformation. www.judging101.com/ Go halfway down the page, until you see the sentence "New! Livestock Judging Lessons from Showmaster Feeds". Below that you will notice a list of 16 lessons. Cattle lessons are numbered 1 - 5. click on each lesson and answer the questions. You will find the correct answers on the "answer key" The remaining lessons are for hogs, goats and lambs. Barb
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zephyrhillsusan
member
Caught Dexteritis in Dec. 2009. Member of this forum since Oct. 2013.
Posts: 1,502
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Post by zephyrhillsusan on Mar 1, 2015 17:23:08 GMT -5
Thanks for the great resource, legendrockranch! I've saved it on my "Links" page on my blog along with some conformation resources. I won't tell you my score!
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Post by rhonda on Mar 1, 2015 18:52:10 GMT -5
Well, apparently I should be raising steers and stay away from heifers!
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Post by cddexter on Mar 1, 2015 19:10:39 GMT -5
thanks, Barb.
Fun. Let's hear it from the rest of you. I got 23 out of 25, no cheating, and disagreed on one: Lesson 1 Q4, the animal on the left may be the right answer, but I'll bet when it comes to butchering, the animal on the right will have a lower saleable meat yield percentage x carcass weight.
cheers, c.
PS, my eval sys guru would say it doesn't matter what the breed, quality is quality and we should be able to answer the Q's for the other species just as well.
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Post by legendrockranch on Mar 1, 2015 20:07:09 GMT -5
Here's another game. This game is a lot of fun and test your knowledge of Dairy Cattle Judging. Granted our Dexters will never have the size of udder or produce the amount of milk a dairy breed will. I do feel the basic structure of the udder should be the same, just on a smaller scale. Place the ribbon on the cow you feel places 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th. You will be able to judge Brown Swiss, Holstein, Guernsey, Jersey and Ayrshire aged cows www.edugamer.org/app/playGame.aspx?userGameId=4573 Barb
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Post by J & M Chambers on Mar 6, 2015 16:39:33 GMT -5
Patti, I've never heard of ADCA committees being invite only or of any vetting process. All I have ever seen or heard of is the board pleading with members to volunteer to participate on the committees. Patti led the most recent effort to implement a linear classification system for our breed and it should and must be used for effective breed improvement to occur at the national herd level. I've barked up this tree for a long time. The responses from folks I have proselytized to on classification has been very disappointing. Many of us are very reluctant to have our herds objectively assessed. Some of the few that have participated in the linear classification and been disappointed in the results have chosen to attack the process and system rather than constructively get to work on herd improvement, which is very disappointing. I have in the past and will continue to urge the ADCA to create incentives and rewards for breeders to participate in linear classification. The information individual herds can receive, if accepted and used, can be a great asset in herd improvement and the information the ADCA could receive on the status of the national herd would allow it to speak authoritatively to their members on the needs of the national herd in terms of improvement. Since this program has become dormant the association has no legitimate way to guide their members generally on the component / areas in need of improvement and maintenance. I've sometimes heard the claim that cattle shows are providing this service to the breed. As a very frequent and long term herd that shows I know this not to be the case. The show ring is a fantastic way to showcase and promote the breed internally and externally but it is no way a replacement for a classification system and the functional information resulting from a national classification system. Without this system in place we are left (as a national herd) to each herd literally on a wilderness jaunt. I've previously referred to it as breeders playing yard darts while blind folded - its all fun and games until someone gets hurt. I don't agree with 100% of the scoring on the classification system myself even as member of the committee that helped to develop it but it should be used AND improved! One area that I see emerging as a conformation area moving rapidly in the wrong direction is "Body Depth" and "Rib and Bone" These are traits that are critically important as components of functional - productive cattle. I've noted many animals for sale and at shows that are approaching the left side of these scales with very little body depth or spring of rib. What is more problematic is that the owners / sellers / showers / buyers did not seem to note these deficits. Examine your breeding animals and see where their depth at heart girth comes on the forelegs, see if this depth is carried back through the length of the animal. I like to see and the classification system also does that the depth at the heart girth is nearer the knee than at the elbow and that depth should be carried throughout the length of the animal. Straight top lines are good but if you've got bottom lines that are as straight, without any depth, you have some work to do. Related I see many more animals recently at sale and show that have decent profile in terms of depth but when you get up on top and look down on them there is little to no spring to their rib. These are just two traits I've seen change dramatically in the last 5 to 10 years that were a national classification system in place the association would have data on to not only identify the problem but with authority inform breeders of the issue to correct. Jeff
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Post by cddexter on Mar 7, 2015 0:48:50 GMT -5
Hey Jeff, now you REALLY have to come for a visit. Members need help. Maybe you can make something happen. cheers, c.
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Post by Cascade Meadows Farm - Kirk on Mar 7, 2015 1:04:11 GMT -5
One area that I see emerging as a conformation area moving rapidly in the wrong direction is "Body Depth" and "Rib and Bone" View AttachmentThese are traits that are critically important as components of functional - productive cattle. I've noted many animals for sale and at shows that are approaching the left side of these scales with very little body depth One of the problems in Dexters, is that folks have used the chondrodysplasia gene to "correct" for poor body depth in cigar-shaped cows. A cigar-shaped cow on too-long of legs can be bred on a chondro-dwarf bull and you can instantly get some chondro-dwarf offspring that look much deeper in body... and they even often win shows. But they still have the same poor cigar-shaped body genetics, just hidden by the chondro effect.... But the chondro effect only works 50% of the time (since 50% of calves will be non-chondro). Folks probably shouldn't even bother judging/classifying their chondro-dwarfs, but instead should judge the non-chondro relatives. If the non-chondro relatives have depth issues, then the "perfect" chondro cow likely also has depth issues in their genetics.
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Post by J & M Chambers on Mar 7, 2015 10:06:18 GMT -5
Carol, the shipping rates you folks seem to get out there are making it prohibitive for me to haul to the great northwest– I can not haul stock for $1.00 a load mile or less! What are you folks using for fuel out there? Still want to get out there though.
Kirk, thank you for the input, but my observation on depth and spring is not specific to chondrodysplasia breeding or animals by any means. If you are breeding with dwarfs to improve phenotype, as you have pointed out, the genotype resulting is a mystery wrapped in an enigma.
I see lack of depth and insufficient spring across the board of breeder/animal types – all inclusive; not the least of which are breeders working exclusively in on/off switch genetics chasing homozygous this or that. But again this points out the critical need for a national classification system to be supported and in use by the association: with rewards, incentives, and disincentives for herds of sufficient size that choose not to classify.
Jeff
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