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Post by wvdexters on Dec 4, 2012 9:08:18 GMT -5
Perhaps people should go back and re-read these threads. From top to bottom. Trying to leave out our own personal biases and preferences. Over the past few weeks there has been at out-an-out attack on chondro pos. dexters. Questioning if they should even be considered dexters and even ALLOWED in the Dexter Registry. Questioning the RIGHTS of owner/breeders to continue breeding these dexters and even their motives and reasoning for wanting to do so. Can we not remember terms like (genetic defects, lethal mutations, lawn ornaments, unnecessary.....) After all we are now in a thread named GENETIC DEFECT ELIMINATION POLICY. In this thread I discovered that my girls (female REGISTERED DEXTERS) the ones I was so proud of, searched for, and just down right "in love with" are deemed to be inferior, even worse they are being labeled as rejects. It was even suggested that I need to "WEAN" myself from them. A statement that I find personally offensive, and I would hope that everyone is in agreement on this!!! I DO NOT NEED to be weaned of anything here. To even MAKE such a statement is unbelievably rude. I will make my own decisions based on FACT; not conjecture, not emotion, nor imagined threats, nor bias, nor outside pressure.
This so called GENETIC DEFECT ELIMINATION POLICY authored by Kirk is nothing more than a tool. IF adopted this tool WILL be used to Eliminate anything that does not fit into this ONE MAN"S IDEA of what a perfect dexter is. HIS IDEAS. Not mine, not yours, not the entire Dexter community; HIS. This one man's. He is trying to gain support for his ideas. Please go back and read the threads on Chondro vs. non-Chondro, pretty bull. There is a theme here. A very dangerous theme IMO.
And don't be lulled into acceptance just because you do not have Chondro pos. animals in your own herd; this will not stop here. These "unknown genetic defects" lurking everywhere in the near future will be dealt with also. AI bull availability will be greatly diminished. How many of the bulls available now will be able to meet the new eligibility guidelines??? How many future bulls will be accepted. AI bulls are now genotyped and tested for PHA and Chondro. But now wait, we must add Kirk's list to the regimen. Everyone who wishes to offer a bull for AI will need to breed him to 20 daughters........ To prove he is not carrying some unknown, non-existent, genetic defect. If you can't, if you are not big enough, if you do not have the capability to perform this regimen, then too bad. Your bull is unacceptable under the GENETIC DEFECT ELIMINATION POLICY. You will lose, and I personally believe the Dexter breed will lose. This policy will create a bottle neck of available genes. Many of us depend on AI. Believe me if this policy is allowed to go into effect your choices will be severely limited.
This policy has been stated, restated, over and over again. READ IT. Think about it for yourself. Don't take anyone else's word on this. You must read and understand what is trying to be done here. How it will affect you, how it will affect me, how it will affect your fellow owner/breeders, and lastly but most importantly how it will affect the dexter breed. The breed we all love and are trying so hard to protect.
And I use the word PROTECT purposefully. No one here is trying to tell Kirk or others how to do things; how to manage his own dexters. No one is trying to force their opinions on him. No one is trying to keep him from reaching his own personal goals. The exact opposite is true. He is trying to control others through this GENETIC DEFECT ELIMINATION POLICY. Trying to control ...You!!
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jamshundred
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Post by jamshundred on Dec 4, 2012 9:28:00 GMT -5
<<I believe Kirk is a brave man to take on such a controversial subject. Thank You Kirk! I for one appreciate you, your knowledge and your efforts. Common sense, is not so common, clearly! <<
Bravery defines our soldiers and sailors and fireman and policeman who face death each day in jobs they choose to help them fulfill their American dreams. Bravery defines the 27 year old coal miner in WV who returned from fighting for his country on foreign soil and went to work in the coal mines in Appalachia, proposed to his girl friend, married in the fall of 2011, eagerly and excitedly planned for the first child they awaited with such excitement and happiness, due to be born precisely and exactly two weeks to the day he was crushed to death in a mining accident on Friday.
Brave Elemental? Proposing radical positions that might sometime in the distant future find approval in a radical group with like agenda but that will never be adopted in the breed as a whole either nationally or internationally simply and entirely for the sake of controversy and/or to soften up the naysayers for whatever the real intended agenda might be . . . you call this brave?
Judy
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jamshundred
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Post by jamshundred on Dec 4, 2012 9:30:06 GMT -5
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Post by lhaggard on Dec 4, 2012 9:30:50 GMT -5
I think this GENETIC DEFECT ELIMINATION POLICY was tried back in the 40's in a little country called Germany. Does the names Adolf Hilter and Dr. Josef Mengels (sp?) ring a bell. But they tried it with humans instead of animals. Just my two cents worth.
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jamshundred
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Post by jamshundred on Dec 4, 2012 9:39:33 GMT -5
Larry,
Touche' I said the same thing to a friend of mine!
We have so many lethal defects in humans. My Mom and Dad both died from cancer as did a brother and a sister survived the diagnosis. Should they have been culled so as not to spread the lethal genes? Or those carrying the genetics that spread other lethal conditions?
Does Kirk advocate culling all humans carrying HIV so there will be no risk of passing on the carrier status?
How radical does he want to be?
These threads, in the scheme of things, are beyond ridiculous.
Judy
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Post by marion on Dec 4, 2012 9:52:13 GMT -5
And speaking of a thread being "beyond ridiculous", the last few posts by Jamshundred about "real" bravery and culling of humans etc etc are truly "beyond ridiculous" and have nothing at all to do with Dexter genetics discussion. Using flagwaving, war, Hitler and AIDS and the sad fact that people lose their lives in mining accidents is completely inappropriate when used in the context of the defense of Dexter dwarfism.
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Post by legendrockranch on Dec 4, 2012 10:10:06 GMT -5
Perhaps people should go back and re-read these threads. From top to bottom. Trying to leave out our own personal biases and preferences. Once again I am not talking about the subject matter or differences of opinion, I am talking about personal attacks..... Below are just a "few" of what I mean. Genebo said "I can't argue logically with him, since he doesn't use logic"
"I think he's just a guy with a wild hair up his butt that needs scratching and his followers are scratching it for him".So, know what would you call those remarks? ? Barb
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jamshundred
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Post by jamshundred on Dec 4, 2012 10:11:12 GMT -5
Oh! I see Marion.
Calling a man brave for expousing radical positions is not ridiculous, but calling a human who fought for his country and trudged to work each day to one of the few vocations available in a depressed area and losing his life trying to support his family isn't brave? And there is a connection to Dexters. . . the family raises them!
Having a breed of cattle founded on the dwarf gene being under attack for the very physical condition that sustained them over time and making a comparison that sometimes animals are used to further agendas for humans and in humans is ridiculous?
We are all God's creatures are we not?
Judy
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Post by marion on Dec 4, 2012 10:40:08 GMT -5
I see you have edited out the most offensive portions of your post.
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jamshundred
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Post by jamshundred on Dec 4, 2012 10:44:17 GMT -5
<<Once again I am not talking about the subject matter or differences of opinion, I am talking about personal attacks..... Below are just a "few" of what I mean.
Genebo said "I can't argue logically with him, since he doesn't use logic"
"I think he's just a guy with a wild hair up his butt that needs scratching and his followers are scratching it for him".<<
So, know what would you call those remarks? *******************************************************
Barb,
I would call them opinions and just like the proverbial's we all have them and our great Constitution says we get to express them any way we want! Great country! If you want a perfect and peaceful existence among all living things I suspect you are going to have to be patient and wait for the rapture.
****** I am a person against censor of all types and support freedom of speech in all forms- it is a right never to be taken lightly. I rarely change something I've written except to correct spelling or syntax.
This is a rare exception. I have made a decision to remove a section of this post whose content was not without purpose. The intended purpose was realized, and I can be done with it now.
Judy
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Post by wvdexters on Dec 4, 2012 10:54:32 GMT -5
This is to Marion, Rezzful, Legend Rock, Elemental and others. Please understand that I have named you personally not to point you out or ridicule you in any way. The exact opposite is true here. I have named you personally (and included the word others in case I missed anyone) out of friendship and respect. These threads IMO are terrible for the dexter community. They drive us apart, cause hard feelings and cause strife between members. They try to force us to take sides. We all know and understand there are great differences in this forum/registry. These threads focus on these differences causing us all to 'circle the wagons". I can honestly say that I do not know you personally. I recognize your names though and have really enjoyed your posts/pictures. There are not many dexter breeders/owners around and I enjoy hearing from you all and from Genebo, Hans etc. I have learned so much here on this forum, you have helped me so much. I really enjoyed hearing from Gorignak, but he's not posting any more. No wonder though, he mentioned many times how destructive this forum can be. I guess he just gave up and left along with the others. Stop and think how many of our friends we do not hear from anymore. I personally miss them. It's sad and a loss for all of us. I don't want us all to lose any more members. I cannot speak for anyone and won't pretend to. But I can speak for myself. I do not know what "type" of dexters you personally raise. Whether your animals are chondro pos or neg, horned or polled, red or black,or dun, their PHA status; I do not know and I do not care. You breed registered dexters, we are fellow members of this forum, you are involved with the Dexter Registry of your choosing; that's good enough for me. What you are hearing is frustration. Frustration that we are all dealing with the same old issue(s) again and again. And anger that a person is trying to take away my right to breed my dexters. Kirk is the lead person in this GENETIC DEFECT ELIMINATION POLICY. He is the author of the policy. He is the person spearheading this threat to our personal right to manage our dexters. Make no mistake, this threat is to all of OUR rights (yours and mine). He has his own personal view of what is a perfect Dexter and is trying to force his view onto us all. Those of us who are stepping up and trying to rebuff this view are doing it for everyone of us. His policy is full of holes. He wants to pick and choose genetic issues. He wants to force us all into expensive testing requirements; while interestingly enough HE will remain free of these requirements himself because HE feels HE has scrubbed HIS herd. You and I will have to test and report those results; while HE will remain free of this requirement and expense. I wonder how will that look on the pedigrees? What will be the code for owner scrubbing? Who will decide who's herd has been scrubbed successfully? What is the definition? Where is the guideline so we know who will be let through the testing loophole and who of us will not? Who's job will it be to make these decisions? Who will have the POWER? These are interesting questions don't you think?? And there are so many more interesting questions? Why are some genetic issues being considered Defects while others are not? Why are some simply considered cosmetic? Not serious? Could it be that they are included in his Dexters. That he himself, personally owns dexters of this type. Not only owning but even specializing in this type?? He is using scare tactics to swing people. The future genetic defects he keeps referring to do not exist. Genetic Defects are not popping up left and right, lurking around the corner waiting to jump on us. Chondroplasia was not discovered in our dexters in the past decade or so. It was NAMED and a test created for it recently. Chondroplasia has always been in dexters, from the earliest dexters, from the very beginnings of the breed. They were referred to as short leggeds "shorties" We know this for sure as a positive fact because there were bulldog calves. It is documented. These are the facts. To suggest anything else is misleading at best. But it does sound good and sure bolsters his policy. As for that other rare type found down in Australia, it does not exist in the American herd so let's just not import it. Problem solved. There is no credibility here. He is trying to put a burden on you that he himself will not carry. He is trying to impose his views on you. If this policy is allowed to stand he will force you to follow his rules or you are OUT. Remember his rules, not the rules and standards of the Dexter Breed Registry. They will be rewritten to suit his own purpose and you will be forced to either knuckle under and obey, or you will be shown the door. Please have patience with us. Make no mistake, this is a fight! A fight over control and power. Who will have it and Who will wield it. All Dexter breeders/owners equally or a very few with extreme, radical views. If the radicals are allowed to win, if they are allowed to change the rules, make definitions as they see fit; The dexter breed, and the ADCA will be changed forever. There will be bo going back for any of us.
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jamshundred
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Post by jamshundred on Dec 4, 2012 11:01:36 GMT -5
Marion,
Nice try. If something is missing that YOU considered offensive someone else removed it. I changed the typo in the work ridiculous because I hit the U instead of the I right beside it. But just in case I accidentally removed something - I am going to compare to what I printed and what is yet posted and will put it back up.
Judy
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jamshundred
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Post by jamshundred on Dec 4, 2012 11:11:03 GMT -5
Marion,
Nothing missing. My post was originally the first one on Page 12. Something must have happened over on page 11 because the post which you find " offensive" ( the post challenging Kirk being called brave) is still there exactly as originally posted.
However, on the top of page 12, is a blank sheet. It represents my hitting the button twice when I posted and therefore the message went on the board twice. I erased it since it was a redundant duplicate and I didn't know how or if I could delete the entire thing.
You ARE a work of art. Since you are a moderator I suppose you would have access to proving or disproving my allegation so .. . . . go ahead and repost that redundant duplicate and we will see who is right yet again. Must be dreadful standing in the shadows waiting for that 'gotcha" moment, thinking it has arrived and then be dashed by disappointment.
Judy
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Post by Tanya on Dec 4, 2012 11:28:37 GMT -5
Judy, WVDexters, Genabo,
A simple search states that to be brave is the ability to confront fear, pain, danger, uncertainty, or intimidation. Yep Id say Kirk qualifies.
Abraham Lincoln was surely called radical, crazy, insane, ahead of his time, a rotten no good bastard for intending to take away the American peoples "PROPERTY". We all know how history turns out.
As for the personal attacks, posturing, rude behavior targeted to those who do not believe the way you do, is very TELLING to the character of the poster(s). When all is said and done. The attacks will be here waiting for all to see. Likewise, the people who are attempting to follow the site guidelines in a respectful and considerate ways will also stand out. I sense fear here with those who attack other members. If all that Kirk says is garbage and you have no belief in his views then why are you spending pages and pages debating this issue? Wont the folks you are trying to impress already see beyond Kirks supposed insanity? You must be seriously worried and you should be. Because the new people who come into raising Dexters just might follow suit with Kirks views just like so many people i know who also do.
Peace out folks...I find this anything but a positive way to spend my time. Out to feed my sweet, gentle, true breeding non PHA , Non Chrono Dexters. Have a great day!
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Post by Dahdo on Dec 4, 2012 11:42:16 GMT -5
[walking away, shaking head] Will Rogers is spinning in his grave. piffle.
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