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Post by midhilldexters on Jun 17, 2013 18:52:00 GMT -5
So, I often browse other breeders web sites, and I often see breeders advertise their beef or the cattle as Grass Fed. Fine, but then I see them mention they use grain of some sort to " keep them friendly" or " keep them coming to the barn". So my question is, are there any other breeders out there, other than myself, that use NO grain at all. At Midhill I have not used grain in about 11 years, I have never found my Dexters need it, even with all the snow and bad winters I get. Also, what is your interpretation of grass fed?
Carol K
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2013 21:55:03 GMT -5
Hi Carol We state ours eat native grasses but we will always use treats so we could never say they are grass-fed only. Grass-fed to me is where they eat only grasses - and I wouldnt include barley, oats, wheat hays etc into that mix either, or otherwise it would be "cows not fed processed grain" or something along those lines - I would think. So that would be my interpretation of grass-fed
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Post by Dahdo on Jun 17, 2013 22:25:46 GMT -5
I was using sweet feed to tame and I was telling people they were grass fed with an asterisk. Then I found they like alfalfa pellets just as well for treats, so I took off the asterisk. Just finished a grass fed Dexter burger...there is no better beef, yum.
P.s. around here, a lot of people advertise beef as grass fed, but they finish with a big grain ration. We are educating our customers to look for grass fed AND grass finished...if that is what they want.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2013 3:24:28 GMT -5
Yes we do the same.
The very long drought here turned me off lamb very early on. I haven't eaten lamb for over 8 years now, there's an after taste I never experienced before and I don't like it.
Beef wasn't as bad, but I feel the 'tenderness' has gone from it. You really have to be on your game in how you cook it these days.
A friend has Dexter steers which has only eaten grass and we enquired to buy one from him..........which reminds me to ask him now.
[block your eyes Patti *S*] I make pets out of everything and can't bring myself to eat one of our Dexters, not that we are at that stage in our herd anyways.
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Post by midhilldexters on Jun 18, 2013 5:37:29 GMT -5
Lindon, are you counting grass hay as a grain? I know some people do, I don't as I have to use hay over winter. I really wish the terminology for grass fed, grass finished was more polished. i also use alfalfa pellets if I need to for cow that have calves.
carol K
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Post by kozzy on Jun 18, 2013 5:50:58 GMT -5
USDA says:
"Grass Fed Marketing Claim Standards
Claim and Standard:
Grass (Forage) Fed – Grass and forage shall be the feed source consumed for the lifetime of the ruminant animal, with the exception of milk consumed prior to weaning. The diet shall be derived solely from forage consisting of grass (annual and perennial), forbs (e.g., legumes, Brassica), browse, or cereal grain crops in the vegetative (pre-grain) state. Animals cannot be fed grain or grain byproducts and must have continuous access to pasture during the growing season. Hay, haylage, baleage, silage, crop residue without grain, and other roughage sources may also be included as acceptable feed sources. Routine mineral and vitamin supplementation may also be included in the feeding regimen. If incidental supplementation occurs due to inadvertent exposure to non-forage feedstuffs or to ensure the animal’s well being at all times during adverse environmental or physical conditions, the producer must fully document (e.g., receipts, ingredients, and tear tags) the supplementation that occurs including the amount, the frequency, and the supplements provided."
I'm personally guessing that 99% of commercial producers bend that rule anywhere from a slight curve to a pretzel.
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Post by kansasdexters on Jun 18, 2013 7:06:58 GMT -5
Lindon, Our cows are very special to us, and they are treated with high regard: themerc.coop/postdetail.cfm?id=1017After you have been a breeder for a few years, there will be animals in your herd that can best serve their purpose if they are humanely slaughtered and made into high quality beef for people to enjoy and appreciate. It is the revenue produced by the grassfed/grass finished Dexter beeves in our herd, that sustains the herd and provides the money needed to purchase hay, supplies, equipment, veterinary services, etc. Without them, we would not have an economically sustainable operation. We can't afford to keep 70 head of cattle as "pets". Patti
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Post by Julie on Jun 18, 2013 8:43:55 GMT -5
Good discussion! It is interesting that the USDA has a definition - good to know! I have noticed many folks using the "grass finished" term lately. We butchered our first steer late last fall, and we did supplement him with cracked corn b/c he was pastured with a friend's steer who prefers to feed corn and was willing to buy the corn. I read somewhere that supplementing grain at less than 2% of body weight will not affect the "good/healthy" aspects of grass fed beef. Has anyone else heard that? I can't remember where I read it. Anyway, the flavor and tenderness of the steer has been excellent, but I am going to try completely grass finishing the next steer we butcher for comparison. I am learning about forages and timing your date with the butcher to better match the peak nutrition of your grass. Any advice from the folks that truly raise grass-fed animals would be great!
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Post by midhilldexters on Jun 18, 2013 13:38:15 GMT -5
Patti, since you do the beef in a bigger way than most of us, what part do you feel the genetics behind certain lines you have play a role? I presume some of your cows may do better on grass than others? And do you weed out the ones that don't do as well? That is basically what I have done here over the last 12 years, however when I bring in a new cow or bull, it takes a while to see if those calves do well in my area and on grass alone for meat, so it's almost like starting over again, which is a pain.
Carol K
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2013 17:08:23 GMT -5
Lindon, are you counting grass hay as a grain? I know some people do, I don't as I have to use hay over winter. I really wish the terminology for grass fed, grass finished was more polished. i also use alfalfa pellets if I need to for cow that have calves.
carol K Hi Carol Its probably a little pedantic to count some grass hays as grains……….especially when I read your post – it does sound quite black and white. I think it comes from being into poultry – yep we dived into that head first and with the freerange debate we discovered in Australia, free range means only the birds have a minimum of 8 hours of daylight and can move freely around. So when we visited a ‘farm’ commercially selling freerange labelled eggs, we were appalled to see the hens packed into a muddy, barren yard. Not a blade of grass in sight. Not a clean spot to sit, no available area to dust bath, and if they pushed each other enough, well , they had room to move around in I suppose. So I sort of transferred that to the grass-fed thing for our moos. Grain grasses are still grains such as wheat, barley, oats etc. Just not processed yet But it does sound a little pedantic, doesn’t it? We feed ‘treats’ and will continue to do so. Our treats are grains – cattle nuts, the diary mix etc, so while we would love to have 100% grass-fed – we wont Alfalfa pellets? Never heard of them. Are they high in protein or something so are really suited for lactating mums? I am ignorant when it comes to food nutrition. Cheers Donna
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Post by kansasdexters on Jun 18, 2013 17:30:36 GMT -5
Hi Carol,
The genetics behind the different pedigree lines play a significant role in the carcass quality and yield of each animal that is processed for beef. All of our cows do well on grass, without the need for grain or supplementary feed. The job of each cow in our herd is to get bred at the appropriate time and to produce and wean a healthy calf every year. Our cows are expected to care for their calf for at least 8 months, to breed back at the appropriate time, and to maintain their body condition year round.
Here are our "star" performers:
SJ Roxie, ADCA #9517, born 2/2/1998 (deceased 8/3/2012), 12 calves, 8 were registered. Hillside Mornin Glory, ADCA #1193, born 4/19/2001, 10 registered calves, 2013 calf registration pending. Hillview Ellie P, ADCA #13207, born 8/4/2002, 8 registered calves, 2013 calf registration pending. Bohls Diamond, ADCA #14288, born 11/4/2002, 9 registered calves, 2013 calf registration pending. Oleo Mistletoe, ADCA #14015, born 12/25/2002, 7 registered calves, 2013 calf registration pending. Oleo Nickel, ADCA #14017, born 4/21/2003, 7 registered calves, 2013 calf registration pending. Gracious Muirstead, ADCA #016041, born 3/25/2004, 7 registered calves, 2013 calf registration pending. Fina Muirstead, ADCA #01640, born 4/6/2004, 7 registered calves, 2013 calf registration pending.
Our "best ever" steer, to date, was produced by Oleo Nickel and AI-sired by Lochinvar.
There is considerable variation in ribeye area, tenderness, marbling, and finished weight at 24 months of age between different pedigree lines. The more "dairy-type" Dexters have typically had smaller ribeye area per 100 wt., and the more bone weight there is, the lower the yield per lb of carcass weight.
Patti
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Post by midhilldexters on Jun 18, 2013 17:57:57 GMT -5
Patti I would agree with you as my NE breeding has done better than some other lines.
Lindon, can understand you counting wheat and barley etc as grains, makes total sense, although if you are grazing before it heads out then is that still considered grass for you? I don't graze anything like that at all here, although I'm sure some do, mine is all grass grazing, I'd certainly graze it and consider it grass before it heads out.
Certainly get your point when it comes to the free range issue, it's the same here. My chucks are all out over the pastures yet the commercial ones that are " free range" have the same sort of rules and regs as your s do.
Oh and alfalfa is Lucerne to you, think I got that right?
Carol K
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2013 22:32:04 GMT -5
Lindon, Our cows are very special to us, and they are treated with high regard: themerc.coop/postdetail.cfm?id=1017After you have been a breeder for a few years, there will be animals in your herd that can best serve their purpose if they are humanely slaughtered and made into high quality beef for people to enjoy and appreciate. It is the revenue produced by the grassfed/grass finished Dexter beeves in our herd, that sustains the herd and provides the money needed to purchase hay, supplies, equipment, veterinary services, etc. Without them, we would not have an economically sustainable operation. We can't afford to keep 70 head of cattle as "pets". Patti Patti - thats why the big S [for smiling} .................I was being funny about it.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2013 22:44:33 GMT -5
Lindon, can understand you counting wheat and barley etc as grains, makes total sense, although if you are grazing before it heads out then is that still considered grass for you? Oh and alfalfa is Lucerne to you, think I got that right? Carol K NOW that I never thought of. Gosh you have raised a very good question, especially since Australia has a native wheat grass which is deemed to be a non-threat to livestock and we here at our stud rely heavily on it as its one of the first native grasses to really take off during that inbetween period of winter ending and spring beginning but frosts are still around. And I wouldnt call the native wheat grass, a grain? But should we? Maybe cereal grains are the grains with native and "grass grains", even after they seed up" are technically not grain......................... Could really get a headache thinking about it all Lucerne is alfalfa - Oh gotcha [Yes we treat alot with alfalfa]
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Post by littlecowfl on Jul 12, 2013 10:18:23 GMT -5
Ours wouldn't survive down here without supplemental alfalfa or peanut hay. If I can find it cheap enough, I will feed it. Otherwise, I use feeds or grains to keep weight on. I raised grass fed beef in Virginia. Not here. I can say that grain or feed comprises less than 10% of total diet (feedlots can't claim that).
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