Dehorning?

[laurenholbrook]

I have been looking around for breeding stock and it seems like polled animals are such a hot commodity that they're snatched up just as soon as they put on the market, so have been thinking about getting horned cows. And horned cows, unless bred to homozygous polled have horns, obviously. But I'm just not quite sold on them. I have been hearing both sides of the story-horns are dangerous and not to mess with them, and others say they're fine and have no problems. I know it depends on the individual animal too. But what I'm mainly concerned about is the dehorning process. I would rather not cause pain to my animals if at all possible. I understand dehorning them as young as possible, but i wonder how painful it still is. I would probably use a combination of local anaesthetic, a sedative (alpha-2 agonist, e.g., xylazine) and non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drug (NSAID) to  provide pain control. 

What are people's experience with dehorning? 

[ctownson]

We dehorn at a very early age - usually within a few days of birth (as soon as we feel the horn buds). We use an electric goat/calf dehorner. At this early age the calf gets over it very quickly. Since I have been handling the calf since birth, they will usually let me handle them again within minutes after the procedure.

[ctownson]

Here is a 3 week old calf that was dehorned when she was 6 days old.

[lakeportfarms]

As Charles said, dehorning at a very young age doesn't seem to bother them following the procedure and they're happy to have you handle them immediately afterward. Frankly, at such a young age I think the shot of lidocaine bothers them more than the short dehorning process.

Though I'm a man, from what I've heard birthing hurts a little bit. Your registered stock is also going to have a tattoo in the ear, and probably either an RFID tag or ear tags as well. And since 50% of your calves are going to be bulls, either you're going to have a lot of bulls running around (not recommended) or the process of steering them is going to be another sticking point from a pain standpoint. And we all know what happens to steers at 2 or so years of age. So I wouldn't limit your selection to polled animals for the pain reason, you'll miss out on some very nice animals in the process.

[Deleted]

While I love horns and we don't dehorn and never plan too, I can see where some herds should be dehorned if space is restricted.

We picked up a horned cow and two youngsters for a 16 hr drive home and we put copper pipe coverings on the ends of her horns just to be sure all was ok in the horse float. Because of the time in travelling we didn't tie up and had removed the horsey bits from inside too.

The dexter horns are a great shape. If they decide to rub their heads on you in affection ( which three girls and one of our boys are intent to do most times) the horns are not an issue.

Maybe you need to think about why you don't want or can't have horns?
Look at your potential setup on farm. Why is it you want moos.
This will help you make that decision.

Put your name down with a couple of breeders who have polled. It maybe a little of a wait but in the long term, if polled is for you, then it will be very much worth it.

[laurenholbrook]

Thats good input. I appreciate the feedback. I will be looking at both. My husband likes the horns so we might lean more towards that anyway. And I was reading this thread dextercattle.proboards.com/thread/2758/notes-horns about the cooling effect of horns. Fascinating! And Charles, thats a sweet looking heifer

[tarsallat]

Never a smart move to let a bull rub his head on you, whether with or without horns. ? Affection, ha ha!

[Deleted]

Jul 16, 2013 4:39:07 GMT -5 tarsallat said:

Never a smart move to let a bull rub his head on you, whether with or without horns. ? Affection, ha ha!

Well Tarsallat, lets agree to disagree on that point.

[jamboru]

The main reason we never get familiar with the heads of bulls is because when eventually the inevitable occurs it will be the Dexter breed that gets the bad name and the Dexter bull that will be put down, not the humans that instigated such disrespect in the first place. Bulls heads are the first point of contact in a challenge for dominance. The second reason, insignificant by comparison to guarding and protecting the reputation of the Dexter breed, is that somebody could get severely hurt.
Fran

[carragheendexters]

Hi laurenholbrook,
we have dehorned our horned cattle every which way, with/without sedation/pain relief and at every age. We have found the least stressful and least painful is to do them very early in life, within 1 to 2 weeks. Xylazine is fine for sedation, but you have to get the dose just right or your calf will be down and out for some time, you have to sit and watch them while sedated and keep them under shelter as sedated animals overheat very easily. You have to keep them up sitting on their sternums, if they go out flat on their sides they risk bloating. You can use ketoprofen as an NSAID, but you have to be very careful with the dose and no more frequently than every 3rd day, young animals don't clear it very quickly. We have had our vet give nerve blocks before burning the buds, and to be honest, the calves yelled more and reacted more to the pain of the nerve block than what they do to the burning without sedation and local anaesthetic. We have found the least stressful and least painful is to just get in there and get it done quickly.
Yes, it does hurt, but so does so many things that we do to babies, children and adults. Ever see a baby have a bladder tap or a CSF collected, without sedation or anaesthesia? Even just vaccinations, treatments and even ear piercing. It hurts, but we do it. We are no more cruel to our animals than what we are to ourselves. Also trying to prevent pain etc can sometimes cause more problems than what it relieves, that's why babies etc go cold turkey having procedures done.
Pain is not real, only our brain making it happen, and animals do not conceive pain quite how humans do, that is why they cope so well with surgery etc and are up and walking next day. Humans are sooks and mollycoddle themselves.
If your husband like horns, and you like polled, it will be a battle of the sexes. LOL.
regards Louise
PS We have both.

[carragheendexters]

Hi Donna,
cattle rub their head on you because it feels good, just like they rub their heads on trees, fence posts, each other etc. In our house it is considered bad manners to rub heads on us. Heads are sacred places for people and animals alike, it is a provocative piece of anatomy, you do not touch them unless you have to and they don't touch you. Cattle love to be scratched on their briskets and up inside their back legs, places they can't reach, and that is the most appreciated place to give them a scratch, nothing worse than having an itch that you can't reach.
In many human cultures it would be a death sentence to touch someone of higher standing on their head.
regards Louise

[Deleted]

Jamboru I wasnt aware that you know me (us) or personally know any one of our 6 bulls or how we manage them and interact with them on a daily basis?

And I do take offence at the insinuation that we are “instigating such disrespect in the first place”.

We are entitled to raise and interact with our animals as we see fit and one should be able to voice the way they “do things” on this forum without fear of persecution or belittlement.

Hi Louise
Well I am glad we dont live in a human culture where it would be seen that there is "someone of a higher standing" in the first place.


Cheers
Donna

[jamboru]

Tarsallat, my apologies for not having addressed you personally since it was in support of your post that mine was intended.
Donlin, no point taking offence at what can be read in ag "work-safe" manuals, farmers handbooks, and basic cattle handling publications.
Laurenholbrook, we had injuries when we had 20 or so with horns all wanting the same bale feeders. We still have 6 old cows with horns but they have been fine since we cut 2 inches off the tips, which went a long way to adjusting their attitudes.
Fran

[Deleted]

As stated before Jamboru

Lets agree to disagree on that point

[cddexter]

Donna, you've not had cattle long, and despite your flurry of posts, are still a relative newbie yourself. You are getting advice here from some very experienced livestock people. Don't kiss them off because you think you know better.

NEVER, EVER, let cattle rub their heads on you. I can't make it clearer. Feed them treats, rub under the chin, along the brisket, or between the legs, as Louise suggests.

Please, for your own safety and especially the safety of others on your property, do not let them rub on you, or you scratch them on the poll. It may seem cute and harmless today, but if you get a bull that's excited by the pheromones in the air, or a cow in heat, or a young bull that's testing boundaries, believe me when I say if there's any kind of fracas, the animal will win. They are bigger, heavier, stronger, and have thicker skulls.

By letting them rub on you, you are courting disaster. Trust us on this one.

cheers, c.