winter supplements

[jdcarnathan]

I am thinking of how I want to do this winter. I only have 5 cows and besides my fairly good hay, I was thinking about doing some protein tubs. But I don't know if that is the way to go for a small homestead or just supplement with range cubs everyday instead? Looking for opinions folks.

[lakeportfarms]

It depends on a few things I think...When are the cows due to calves is probably the first question, where are you located and what months will you be feeding hay? How important is keeping their feed intake as natural as possible? Are you diligent about their mineral intake and what type of mineral are you giving them?

We usually don't use the protein tubs, though I'm sure they work well for some people. I'd get your hay tested, and if it's pretty good I'd probably suggest hand feeding the cubes.

It's just a theory of mine and it may also have something to do with our grazing season, or the fact that we do daily moves with managed grazing, but it seems as though our cows tend to do better in the summer if we don't overfeed them in the winter months. They do get pretty fat by the time fall rolls around, and then they lose some of that condition by December when our cold weather really sets in. We'll make sure they're well fed when we have really brutal cold weather, but we tend to put out the poorer quality hay when it's cold and nasty, and then follow with higher quality hay after the weather gets a bit better. It seems as though like with humans, a yo-yo weight gain and loss seems to make them a little more efficient.

[Gorignak]

Sailor....Our seasons are entirely backwards from that down here....we will be feeding hay in two weeks, and will probably have more residual pasture in January than now. The hi-dollar Crystalyx tubs and "any old hay" is what the locals shoot for here. I used them last year. WAY,WAY cheaper than the bagged cubes....anyway, you want at least 20% "breeders cubes" or better if you go with the cubes......at least that is my thought if your hay is 6%.

I lucked into 4x6 bales of early cut fescue and bermuda.....don't love it, but it is pretty, and 1100 lbs for $35. I bought another batch of 4 x 5 .....EARLY cut......he snuck it in a 5 day window(the only one) in early May. It is fescue leaf....zero stem......lots of clover....vetch....and the start of the Bermuda.....really nice. I'm betting double digit protein.....those bales were $25. That's for the milkers, calf and late stage cows.

I'm not buying a cube this year....with the tubs, you can get up to 24%-27% all natural protein...STAY AWAY FROM HYDROLYZED FEATHER MEAL... I have been warned. If you don't have a problem with urea.....you can get up to 34%. There are other factors in the choice of tubs. And, producers, sellers, and neighbors in general will differ greatly in suggestions. The tubs are king around here. It is not unusual to talk to ranchers who use 200....300......or more a year. At the feed store Tuesday, I saw a steady stream of pickups being loaded with 2-3-10-or a whole pallet in one case ALREADY....We are burned up here.

My 5 cows ate 3 tubs.... @$100. each, last summer/ winter/spring. The same $300 will buy 30 bags of 25% super cubes......1500 lbs. I fed hay, that I would be embarrassed to mulch my garden with, last winter....Cost $60 for a 4x5....not a hint of green.
Had a Fat bull....fat cows.....and BIG calf. They liked the higher molasses tubs in the cold....and the higher protein/urea tubs in the more moderate weather.

That's my plan until I can get hay that I can control the quality of, and seed better pasture.

[legendrockranch]

I use the Crystalyx tubs, they are expensive but worth every penny especially with our low quality pastures. We also buy the best quality hay we can find.
Crystalyx produces many different types of tubs for various needs. If your thinking about using a tub, Crystalyx in my opinion is the way to go.


crystalyx.com/

[jdcarnathan]

I understand that. I need to see what we have locally. Are you saying 3 tubs a season. Or a year.

[Gorignak]

I have used 4 tubs for 5,then 6 head, in one complete year. I HAD A LOT OF REPAIR work to do....a "fixer-upper" herd. LOTS of nutritional imbalances. I consider the presence of the tubs to have helped me through my learning curve. IT HAS BEEN A ROUGH 12 MONTHS HERE...... Worst drought in anyone's memory, and blew away all the "dust bowl" records.

GOOD MINERALS are also a key....."Right Now" Onyx or Emerald will put a shine on your cows like nothing else

[ctownson]

In addition to the Crystalix tubs, you might check out Feed in a Drum tubs. We have used some of their tubs with success; particularly like the flax seed lick. They have various protein tubs, some of which are specialized for application or your type of forage. For example, a "fescue balancer" with a lot of magnesium in it. Fescue is common where we are.

[Gorignak]

Charles...the "flax seed" tub sounds like a winner. Our "neighbor", Laura Ingalls Wilder ( about 75 miles away) wrote of flax seed as the secret ingredient in her livestock feed. After the "Little House on the Prairie" days, she ended up near Mansfield MO on a nice little farm. We visit frequently, and often picnic there or at her and Almonzo's  gravesites. Lots of "adult" wisdom in the Little House books. Hope everyone reads them to their young children.

So that's the shine on your cows!!.....

[ctownson]

Here is a link to product details about the flax lick:

www.feedinadrum.com/FLAXLIC.html

[rezzfullacres]

Couple of points to consider....How are you feeding your hay, are you using round bales or squares? If using rounds what size? If they are big bales are they covered while being fed? These few little items will effect the quality of your hay and will help determine what, if any supplementation is needed. You state 5 cows, are they pregnant, if so when are they due? Big difference in protein requirements between pregnant, not preg, lactating or dry.......Another point to consider is the state of your pasture going into the winter, if you are able to stock pile forage the need for supplement will go down down down.......One other point, if you have any other livestock make sure what ever you use is safe for it, not all cattle supplements are safe for other livestock such as equine or sheep etc......Good luck to you

RFA

[rezzfullacres]

Another thing to consider is the state of your pature.....is it poor, fair, good or excellant? If it leaves something to be desired you may want to consider using lick tanks year round until you can improve your pasture and hay to the point that you need little to no supplement.......That should be your goal, it may take you some time but if you base your management decisions on the actual body condition of your cows instead of conjecture you will get there sooner rather than later.......

RFA

[jdcarnathan]

They haven't had any supplements other than free choice mineral, and the occasional sweet feed to keep them friendly. 2 pregnant. Due next month, and the following for the other , a open heifer and a yearling bull, the steer will be at freezer camp. That being said, they are good looking bovines, but this winter I wanna do them right. A fella down the road bout a mile has about 20 head of commercial cattle that look quite a bit rougher than mine due to his poor pasture. He feeds cotton seed meal that's like 38% protein. Cheaper than a tub but not as easy. Thoughts? Also no other animals just some chickens.

[rezzfullacres]

Jul 21, 2013 21:58:29 GMT -5 jdcarnathan said:

2 pregnant. Due next month, and the following for the other , a open heifer and a yearling bull, . That being said, they are good looking bovines, but this winter I wanna do them right. A fella down the road bout a mile has about 20 head of commercial cattle that look quite a bit rougher than mine due to his poor pasture. He feeds cotton seed meal that's like 38% protein. Cheaper than a tub but not as easy. Thoughts? Also no other animals just some chickens.

How much pasture do you have????Based on your time line your cows will be lactating through the winter so they will need some decent feed, how you get there is up to you and your pocketbook. Just because your neighbor is doing something does't mean you need to....With only 8 head to feed through the winter, if all goes well, you should not need too much supplement and it may be more cost effective to but bulk grain to feed every other day.... You need to evaluate YOUR situation and determine if you need any supplement other than the occasional sweet feed to keep them friendly. If your pasture is good and holds, your hay is decent and you give them a 12% or so sweet feed every couple of days that could very well be plenty....You are the only one you knows your conditions and can make that determination... Please realize that an overly heavy cow is just as bad as a very skinny one, both will give you migraine headaches that just won't go away......Good luck, sometimes it takes a winter or 2 to figure out what you are doing right and what you are doing wrong, do not over think the situation just be ready to adapt as circumstances change......Without knowing more about your operation it is hard to make specific recomondations because every operation is different and the needs of the livestock can vary greatly, even from neighbor to neighbor.....Keep your eyes open and especially keep them on the calves, if they continue to thrive through the winter the cows are most likely doing OK, if they "stall" you need to address the problem pretty quickly.....

RFA

[Gorignak]

Your neighbor feeds cottonseed meal because that does not disrupt the rumen chemistry. The more grain...."sweet feed" that you feed....the less hay your cow will digest ( a couple of pounds a day is safe). The tubs and the bagged feed based on cottonseed....soy hulls....corn GLUTEN....DDG....and many others, allow the cow's rumen to function normally. Just stay away from the starch. The protein tubs are designed to maximize the nutrient value in your poor to good quality hay. There are MANY,MANY different combos of protein/energy/minerals/vitamins in the tubs. Each maker has about 10-15 "different" tubs.
Look at DDG....it is usually the best bang-for-your-buck in this area. I don't like cottonseed for the gossypol. pods.dasnr.okstate.edu/docushare/dsweb/Get/Document-1952/VTMD-9116.pdf

Your neighbor's cows look like my neighbor's....but he makes a living, and maybe a good one. Low body condition scores, the cow is a factory to produce the calf and the calves usually look okay when they are sold at the local auction....the "Arky" momma cows go from poor to worse, and then back to poor to do it again. It's painful to watch. My neighbor sells 120 calves, and averages about $600-750 each...EVERY year. His cow herd looks like something out of a zombie movie compared to mine. Sorry, thin, rough coats., their Body Condition Score rarely reaches a 5.

It's all about priorities.

[rezzfullacres]

Here is an interesting read for you

cattletoday.com/archive/2006/November/CT696.shtml

Talks a little bit about all the topics discussed above