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Post by burntforkdexters on Jul 23, 2013 21:00:15 GMT -5
Anyone have suggestions for fly control. Something that controls a wide variety of flies, horn,face etc...I would prefer a spray on type (I only have a few Dexters). Something that is safe for lactating and non-lactating dairy and beef cattle with no slaughter or milk withdrawal time. Thanks
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Post by Dahdo on Jul 24, 2013 16:50:03 GMT -5
Parasitic wasps and traps are doing a good job for us this year. I also put out a dust bag filled with diatomaceous earth. Before the wasps get established I will sometimes spray the cattle with a weak permethrin solution. I'd like to try ducks, but I am sure they wouldn't last long unless I put out a guardian dog...too many coyotes.
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Post by cddexter on Jul 24, 2013 19:42:01 GMT -5
tried wasps, but with 40 acres, and no way of explaining *I* was the one paying the bill, please stay inside the fence lines and eat the flies HERE, I'm pretty sure all the neighbours got fly control, too. I found they didn't work well, maybe I didn't get enough for the area. Spent a couple of hundred $$ on them.
tried fly spray, but the cows hated the sound of the compressed air, and I had to trick them to stand still long enough to have it work. They HATED having their faces done, which is one of the main areas.
tried a really cool tank and brush rubbing thing that worked well. nailed to a tree or post, it had a brush on the vertical, and another on the horizontal attached to a strong spring. the backs of the brushes had a feed to the tank above. Fill the tank, the liquid ran down into the brushes, the cows rubbed, the fly control got on the cows, worked a treat. Just make sure you set it at the right height to catch their backs. It was expensive to buy initially, tho.
tried ducks. Too much land, would have had to have an awful lot of ducks. They would probably be okay if no predators, and only a very small homestead to cover.
There is a new human product out there that works really well: fly control wipes. They come individually foiled wrapped, just like 'wet ones', a square of Kleenex-like material saturated in Deet 30. You can wipe the most important spots, like around the eyes, and the cows think they are in heaven. If you only have a few animals, these area really inexpensive solution and we all know how much our animals like a rub. I found them in the camping section of the hardware store.
Gene, how many ducks to you keep, and do you feed them over the winter?
cheers, c.
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Post by Dahdo on Jul 25, 2013 19:55:54 GMT -5
DE helps, especially with face flies. I put it in a burlap sack and hang it under the eve on the lean-to of my barn. They walk under it and bat it around with their heads until their faces and backs are pretty well dusted with DE. What's cool is that the cattle know it works and self apply.
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Post by lakeportfarms on Jul 26, 2013 6:04:34 GMT -5
One of my winter projects here is to construct a few of the traps using a design similar to the "Horse Pal" trap that is commercially available. The Epps trap seems like it is a bit more complicated to set up and use, and our fly season is pretty mild and short here. I like the DE solution, but our biggest problem is that we manage our pastures and so we don't have a permanent place that the cows always have access to. I've thought about incorporating something into the portable mineral feeders that we are setting up. This link covered a study of both the "Horse Pal" and "Epps" fly traps. There is also an updated study with a link to it on the page. ipm.ncsu.edu/current_ipm/01PestNews/01News6/poultry.html
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Post by Dahdo on Jul 26, 2013 8:59:42 GMT -5
A caution on the DE dust bag for those with horned cattle.....I had just been using a standard burlap sack with my polled cattle...no problems. Now I have two horned steers and they were able to get a horn into the bag and rip it. I knew the culprit because he looked like George Washington in his powdered wig. At the feed store I found a commercial version: a burlap bag with a canvas cover that the horned guys can't use for a piñata. Hans, this looks pretty weather proof, so you might be able to put some out in your pastures if you can hang them from trees. I am managing pastures more intensively this year (16 paddocks!), but With my one small group, they always have access to water, shade, and the dust bag at the barn via the alley.
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Post by lakeportfarms on Jul 26, 2013 21:02:42 GMT -5
Thanks for the tip Dave, we have a lot of trees to hang them from! In some areas where we burned some of the trimmed branches, the herd loves to roll in the ash pile that is left over. We always suspected it was their own way of handling the flies.
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Post by ssrdex on Jul 27, 2013 12:29:38 GMT -5
I got this from a friend in an email, he's got 12 dexters & combines herds with 2 neighbors. "I found a formula for organic fly spray: 60% unfiltered, raw apple cyder vinegar, 20% dawn dish washing soap,and 20% citronella oil, the stuff you get for those tiki fire torches that can be found in hardware stores. I put it in a spray bottle and hose them with it. It lasts about three or four days and keeps the flys away. Then I pour a gallon of apple cider vinegar into a 70 gallon stock water tank, with a half cup of food grade diatomacious earth sprinkled in, to deworm the cows and keep the fly problem down." Seems like an awful lot of spraying. Maybe as they come under control it becomes less? I have the last 2 times I've treated for flies used pemectrin mixed as for a low pressure sprayer, and just used a rag to wipe onto the cows. Don't get all the overspray and runoff that way.
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Gorignak
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Post by Gorignak on Aug 4, 2013 10:51:50 GMT -5
Why oh Why do we have no flies ?? !!
Flies....Horn, Stable, and general Biting flies....Hatched in manure.... LAST YEAR......300-500 ON BODY OF EACH COW.....200+ ON EACH HORN. Cattle were new and unapproachable. We tried to spray Permethrin from a distance.... cattle scattered like...... well, like flies. We, and they endured. I refuse to feed the "pass through" larvacides. Anyway, it was a terrible year, and a feeling of regret for what they had to endure. My neighbor has 150+ rangy cattle and zero control of any kind.
THIS YEAR.....Cattle love us now....we can lay on their backs, and scratch them all over. SO.... we were ready with the pour on "Cylence" and Permethrins.....But, the old hippie in me just had to try.....
UNBELIEVABLE SOLUTION.....We now have less than 15 body flies per cow...AND ZERO...NADA...NONE....horn flies. In an unbelievable turnaround, we broke the cycle of reproduction.
1) DON'T use Ivermectins....they kill dung beetles. Cydectin for worming is better, and has no effect on dung beetles. Our cow pats are boiling with dung beetles within 1 hour of being dropped.
2) Banty chickens are better than Guineas...Guineas are overrated, and I say that with 40 years of hands on experience. I like Guineas for their warning system, but I'll take one good banty hen to 3 Guineas any day. I’ve had thousands of both.
3) Crows..... if you hate crows, you hate one of the most valuable assets a farm can have. After having a crow live with us in the house for almost 15 years, and feeding a select flock of crows, through their 12+ year old Patriarch "Uncle Bob", I'll assure you that we couldn't make it without them. They are Predator Drones that range over our entire 1/2 mile square farm and message back every intruder's location and movement. We can tell if they are harassing an owl, a blacksnake, a coyote or a hawk by their calls. We can gauge the size and threat level of the intrusion by the volume of the "gathering" call they are using. AND NOW.....if we add just 2 cups of coarse cracked or whole corn ( for parasite control only) to each cow's intake....... THE CROWS DISASSEMBLE EVERY COW PAT THAT IS OUT OF RANGE OF THE BANTIES AND MUSCOVY DUCKS.
4) Muscovy Ducks......We keep about 15 permanent breeders...12 hens, 3 males. But during the summer we raise about 60 - 100 for their massive breast plates that is a centerpiece of many fine French dishes, and the best meat we have ever eaten...lean and fine grained as Elk. Muscovy ducks are hard workers.
5) Dark Cornish chickens.....Just try 25 of them. Not a favorite of the egg set. They are not as prolific egg layers as Australorps. But they grow huge fryers, and giant roasters, and they are extremely well muscled and forage the best of any chicken. Look them up on Google....They have been our favorite for over 25 years. We have 100 on hand through the summer. Massive legs, they tear the nearby pats apart as they fall.
6} Burn Piles…. Hans hit it perfect. We learned 30 years ago that chickens flock to old burn piles for the “medicinal” qualities of the alkaline ash. In over 30 years, we have had 200-400 chickens at any one time, and have NEVER had lice on them. We burn 5 wood stoves each winter…. one cooking and 4 to heat all the buildings.. The ashes go on the gardens and orchards, BUT the chickens get a pit of dirt, sawdust and wood ash (or hydrated lime in a pinch) that we add to continuously. The sight of “old Big Foot” …Oz, our bull, lofting great clouds of ash onto his back from a just cooled burned brush pile, convinced us to follow through with the cattle also. EVERYBODY gets wood ashes regularly.
Yes, the banties do pick the flies off the cows as they stand....and an incredible turn is that the cows let the little banties get up on them and run all over them when they are laying down and catch flies.
I understand that this all might not work for many. We have the facilities and the experience to have given it a shot....and the results have us stunned....ZERO use of ANY form of chemical fly control, and nearly ZERO flies on any cow....plus a COMPLETE elimination of horn flies....NOT ONE of those disgusting blood suckers. The ducks, chickens and crows are going for the corn "pass through" and they are eating the little dung beetles. That has not, however, slowed the dung beetles down any. We have thousands of them....every pat that lasts an hour has them burrowing in and below them.
I realize that this is impractical without a lot of close quarters management. But, we are astounded at the results. And to let those of you who are piddling around on a homestead trying this and that to make a bit of $$$ know,..…..We make about $4000 - $6000. each summer running 2 incubators (300 egg) and selling the hatchlings. We make $25. a 12 lb male Muscovy, to restaurants and cooks who know what they are. The banties are our own “farm breed”. We have been selecting them for hardiness and tiny size for 20 years…..little rockets that can fly rings around our Guineas. I get $6 each for the banty chicks….they hatch hundreds by themselves.
SO…..we don’t pay for fly control….fly control pays us.
Back to work.....
EDIT : P.S. We robbed a crow nest a few years back and raised the 4 fledglings in the shop....every time we fed them, us being from Baltimore, we kept repeating "Hello" and "Nevermore" to them. Soon the shop echoed with the crows greeting of Hello and Nevermore, wanting to be fed. We turned them loose. Well, it seems that they taught it to THEIR young, so now it is not unusual to be in the woods, and have a crow hidden high in a tree holler down to us "Hello......Hello......Nevermore".
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Post by Olga on Aug 4, 2013 14:24:24 GMT -5
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Gorignak
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Post by Gorignak on Aug 4, 2013 17:58:46 GMT -5
You bet, Olga. Send it on to anyone who will find it helpful.WE ARE ASTOUNDED...and we have been waiting for this huge cloud of biting flies to remember our address. It just hasn't happened. I wish I could roll up a few cow patties for anyone who needs the dung beetles and UPS them. Probably end up in jail on that one. They are smaller....2CM - 3CM shiny little bugs.....They are here by the thousands. It must be the National Forest, and the millions of acres of wilderness.
DON"T GET ME WRONG...we do have house flies....AND WE ARE NOT BREEDING ONE OF THEM. We manage our manure fastidiously. The surrounding woods provides plenty of dead animals and various food sources for house flies, and they appear by the thousands. In the driest weather they congregate on damp surfaces. We use a combination of sticky rolls.....dozens of them, or the huge 1100' roll, and stinky bait/drowning traps. These traps are bought and then the trap mechanism reused on a larger bottle, or contrived up from soda bottles and the like. Google has a bunch of suggestions. We are in an ongoing battle with house flies BUT.... our cattle are content....chewin' and mooin' and layin' around, with not a single biting fly in sight.
I'll suggest that "brick tied to the tail" to Alana. Her and Sheila are in a pitched battle, with Sheila winning....she can flick her tail into Alana's face with uncanny precision if she stays too long on one teat while milking.
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Post by rhonda on Aug 4, 2013 18:55:01 GMT -5
Sounds like I need to raise chickens and ducks!
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Post by Olga on Aug 4, 2013 22:43:36 GMT -5
I added a new link to Silverspot, The Story of A Crow in my previous post.
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Post by trdean on Aug 6, 2013 6:19:16 GMT -5
So Mike, just curious...what did you actually change from one year to the next to reduce the flies by such great numbers? That sounds like such a great situation...I like the Muscovy ducks and will try some Bantams...and of course we have plenty of crows.
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Gorignak
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Post by Gorignak on Aug 6, 2013 7:57:55 GMT -5
Okay...I have to preface any speculation with a DUH ?? I am so astounded at the success, and I really only have ONE goal that I aimed for....It seemed to be the most important. This was more luck than brains.
Cows are nomadic.....they move away from their recent droppings in a natural (10,000 years ago) setting. This lessens their interaction with internal parasites and external parasite/irritations. One of the most ridiculous scenes I am faced with every year, is seeing neighbor's overcrowded pastures, with a cow pat every 24" and the poor cows are skinny and unthrifty....AND THEY ARE TRYING TO AVOID THE TALL GRASS AROUND THE RECENT DROPPINGS.... Finally, their nature is overwhelmed by hunger...they devour the wormy grass, and head further downhill in body condition.
SO....the chain/tire/bedspring manure drag is a good idea. But rough, uneven ground and $4./gal diesel work to the contrary.
I DECIDED THAT NEAR IMMEDIATE DESTRUCTION OF THE COW PIE WAS MY GOAL..... BINGO.....I am astounded...I promise a video, we discussed it last night as we watched it, of a cow getting up, and every chicken within 200 feet popping to attention and running over to be the first to the fresh cow pie. This requires some training. The chickens have to be in top health, but a LITTLE hungry.....well fed but not satisfied. (sounds like me).
I do not feed corn for nutrition.... I FEED VERY COARSELY CRACKED CORN, OR WHOLE CORN.....about 2 cups per cow per day in order to keep the attention of the banties, full sized chickens, Muscovy ducks, and CROWS. They have every pat disassembled within 24 hours. The dung beetles are prolific.....NO IVERMECTIN....USE ONLY NATURAL MEANS, OR CYDECTIN, OR SAFEGUARD to worm with. This allows the dung beetles to multiply ....and they do so very prolifically. I have to do my Google research....we have little ones 2 cm - 3 cm across. They fly, and find the pats fast. They burrow in and then tunnel under....dozens of little tunnels. I am betting they have eggs laid within 4 hours in the tunnels. I also believe that once they are in the pats, they can continue in the larger chunks that are left after the chickens are through. All this needs to be verified by finding a life-cycle research paper. The chickens, etc also obviously eat the dung beetles....but it does not seem to have an impact on numbers.
I DO NOT HAVE A COMPLETE COW PAT IN MY PASTURES AT THE END OF THE DAY. I just figured out that the nighttime pats probably provide enough breeding time for the dung beetles to enter, burrow, lay eggs, and pull down some manure for the larva....that is why they are surviving......all the horn flies can do is lay eggs and the larva are in the pat when reveille sounds in the coop in the AM. The chickens hurry out to find all the night droppings and banquet on the horn fly larva....the dung beetles are safely below, or flown off, looking for more.
I need to work on a presentation that embraces all the aspects of this form of management....I understand that there is more to this than even this lengthy soliloquy. there is a certain "art" to farming....understanding without learning....intuitive involvement with processes. I am going to think a bit on this, and get the kids working on it, and come up with every possible reason for our success....because, our success is remarkable.....more so than my knowledge base should produce
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