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Post by longshotfarms on Nov 25, 2008 21:01:39 GMT -5
If you want to see a cute one with white, go look at the one in the auction section.
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Post by longshotfarms on Nov 25, 2008 21:38:06 GMT -5
I posted this on that board when she was younger. I don't think Monarch sired too many calves.
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Post by onthebit on Nov 25, 2008 21:49:32 GMT -5
he is kinda cute....like a baldie....but I am more interested in pure bred dexters like this one.
When they came out with the polled dexters, who didn't conform to the guidelines...it was pointed out that it was a genetic mutation and should be allowed.
So now you own a cow with a genetic mutation for spots! Why not register her?
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Post by onthebit on Nov 25, 2008 22:53:58 GMT -5
I've been hearing about this happening lately and I'm very skeptical. I even saw one registered from Freedom Farm and couldn't believe it. Hope somebody has some explanation of what seems to be a new phenomena (maybe it isn't but I've never seen it before). Perhaps it will be the latest thing; a third color scheme for Dexters. Adrienne I finally found that calf registered to Freedom Farms. It is FF Splash of Paint............She sure seems oddly marked also but not nearly the markings LongShotfarms heifer has. Could the FF farms heifer be caused by stress?
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Post by onthebit on Nov 25, 2008 22:59:19 GMT -5
I think it has been proven that the polled Dexters were not a mutation, but got their polledness from Angus. It was an error of registration, but has become so widespread that it's too late to do anything except accept it. I wouldn't use that as an excuse to register another calf that didn't fit in the guidelines. I admire Longshotfarms for their integrity. Longshotfarms, is this calf named Rocky Meese? I didn't know it was a proven fact? I thought it was mostly discussed on the various boards that there was some question as to the authenticity of the parentage of some imported bulls. I guess my point is that if there is a standard for a breed then the breed shouldn't allow 'mutations' and if they do then they will have to allow other 'mutations' in provided they breed true, such as the polled 'mutation'.
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Post by cddexter on Nov 26, 2008 3:21:13 GMT -5
Hi all, re the polled, the extended pedigree provided by the DCS for the imported polled bull didn't show angus, but if you happened to go back to old herd books and read the right page, in another herd a cow was shown twice, one year as an appendix cross (allowed in England) x angus, and the next year registered as a purebred. Don't know what happened, but that apparently 1/2 dexter cow(hetero polled) was bred back to a pure dex bull, and had a HORNED heifer. The imported polled bull does relate back to the angus cross, four gens back, but through the horned heifer, so his polledness does not come from angus, or at least not that one. Remember polled is dominant so if the heifer was horned, she couldn't carry a polled gene.
There is lots of contention about the source of polled, but in this case, it's not from the source quoted here ("I think it has been proven that the polled Dexters were not a mutation, but got their polledness from Angus.") . Carol d.
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Post by jonny on Nov 26, 2008 7:26:27 GMT -5
Genebo , If you have proof that polled came from Angus, by all means , share it with the rest of the class !!!
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Post by longshotfarms on Nov 26, 2008 8:03:11 GMT -5
I admire Longshotfarms for their integrity. Longshotfarms, is this calf named Rocky Meese? I am Rocky and we call the cow "Patch". If you agree that dexters are a heritage breed then it doesn't make sense to try to register animals that stray from what true dexters are and should be. As long as I own her she will never be registered, and I don't plan to sell her. It would be cool if she were polled also. ;D
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Post by onthebit on Nov 26, 2008 11:16:45 GMT -5
Check out this blog on coat colour genetics: easygenes.blogspot.com/The spotting gene is recessive and wont be presented unless both parents carry it and pass it on to the calf. Only then will it appear. I am thinking that the small splashes of white which is allowed on the udders and sheaths and tail tips might actually be the spotting gene which might explain the spotting appearing in such a manner as this...
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Post by onthebit on Nov 27, 2008 0:07:56 GMT -5
Gene;
The gene that is observed in the Hereford is not the same gene that appears in spotted breeds such as the Holstein.
Please read a little bit in the "easygenes blogspot" I posted earlier in this thread. It is quite interesting!
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Post by cddexter on Nov 27, 2008 2:44:44 GMT -5
hi gene, didn't mean to confuse you.
Generation one: pure horned dexter cow (hh) x polled angus bull (PP) = polled heifer calf with one horned gene (from the dam) and one polled gene (from the sire), making her hetero (hP). Polled is dominant so the calf is polled.
Generation two: Then breed this heifer (hP) to pure horned dexter bull (hh), and get a horned heifer (hh) (the recessive horned gene from the heifer that she inherited from her dam and the recessive horned gene from the pure horned dexter sire). Now you have a calf that is 100% horned (hh) with no polled genes.
Since the gen 2 is 100% horned (hh), then all future descendants of this line, if bred to horned animals (hh), must also be horned (hh), too. Ergo, the polled gene several generations later has to have come from some other source, NOT the angus in question to which you referred.
does this make it clearer? Carol D.
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Post by liz on Jun 21, 2009 18:35:17 GMT -5
Well here we are in 2009 and with a PHA mutation, thankfully, in one bull, Priapus. Those odds were 'astronomical' but it happened, without any 'outside' intervention. Makes one think, eh? Liz
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jamshundred
member
Help build the Legacy Dexter Cattle "Forever" Genotype database
Posts: 289
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Post by jamshundred on Jun 21, 2009 23:10:39 GMT -5
Liz,
I'm not sure if I'm interpreting your comment as: Priapus is a fresh mutation, or that there is only one bull ( Priapus) with this mutation.
However. . . . . it appears to me. . .from the herd book research I've done in England that this has been out there for a few decades and traces behind Woodmagic. PHA . . . has. . . been discovered in England.
Canwell Satan was supposed to be a carrier of "hydrocephaly". Can we suppose it might have been what we now know is PHA? There are recorded instances of "long leg deformed" calves born dead in England during the 70's. Both Canwell Satan and Statenboro Saphrophyte have dead calves described in the herd books that seem to be high in number. Both the Woodmagic herd and the Doesmead herd had very high levels of calves born dead in certain years. In the couple of years before the Doesmead herd was disbursed the number of calf deaths in that herd was an astonishing percentage of all births.
I believe you will soon be hearing more about PHA in England because they are just discovering it's existance as well.
Judy
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Post by liz on Jun 22, 2009 8:37:43 GMT -5
Hi Judy, no I wasn't inferring that Priapus was the only bull with the mutation but rather after reading Gene's comments about why the polled mutation couldn't have occurred it made me think that if the odds were so astronomically against that mutation, how do we explain the PHA mutation? Surely we can't pick and choose which mutation we agree with and which we don't. Whether or not the mutation started with Priapus, came in through Wheatear and already existed in the English herd, we don't know for sure. But I'm sure you are right on that assumption. Liz
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Post by Clive on Jun 22, 2009 13:22:24 GMT -5
I'd never heard of PHA till it was mentioned. Can someone recommend where to read up about it? Especially anything that is Dexter specific please?
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