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Post by laughingllama75 on Aug 11, 2012 11:37:16 GMT -5
Hey! Those were neat. I do know of someone else who has a white marked dexter cow. I believe she is breeding her to try and get color. I need to do more reading on it.......this intrigues me. And obvious to me that there was "something else" in the wood pile way back.
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Post by emgiger on Aug 11, 2012 12:55:58 GMT -5
Hi Patti,
Can you comment on how the splotchy/spotted white on the Dexters mentioned above may or may not be related to the white that appears on some Dexter's udder area? I was reading the guidelines for the breed and it seems as though some white in that area is acceptable. The guidelines state:
"A little white on the organs of generation is permissible."
I do have a few cows with some white on their udder and am wondering if this is related to excessive white in any way. Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated!
Eileen
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Post by laughingllama75 on Aug 11, 2012 13:18:12 GMT -5
As I understand it Eileen, white behind the navel is acceptable. So on udder, underline by udder is ok. And I think on the tail-tip too.....am I right? Anyone?
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Post by theburrowfarm on Aug 11, 2012 15:30:29 GMT -5
According to the guidelines yes.
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Post by emgiger on Aug 11, 2012 16:51:28 GMT -5
Thanks for the comments guys. I agree that the white around the udder area is acceptable according to the guidelines. I am most interested in whether the white around the udder is any indication of whether they are heterozygous for the excessive splotchy white or if the two are entirely unrelated. Anyone??
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Post by kansasdexters on Aug 12, 2012 10:35:42 GMT -5
Hi Eileen, The answer to your question is sometimes yes and sometimes no. White spotting along the underline may be due to the presence of the recessive spotting mutant gene, "s". This is also referred to in literature as the "piebald gene". However, according to Dr. T.A. Olson, University of Florida, a noted expert on the genetics of colour variation in cattle, in many cases, such spotting is not caused by the recessive spotting mutant "s" and it is unclear as to the genetic mechanism involved. Here is a link to Dr. Olson's chapter in "The Genetics of Cattle", published in 1999: www.piedmontese.org/Coat%20Color%20Cattle.pdfAnother noted expert is Dr. Sheila Schmutz, University of Saskatchewan, Canada. Here is a link to her web page on cattle colors: homepage.usask.ca/~schmutz/colors.htmlIn "The World of Dexter Cattle Proceedings of the First World Congress on Dexter Cattle", published in 1998, Andrew Sheppy cites Heman Ibsen's outdated article on Cattle Inheritance, from 1933, which attributes the presence of a white line of variable width running from the inguinal region forward to the brisket, to a dominant gene for inguinal white. He does go on to say that the presence of this white marking does seem to be at least influenced in extent by the presence or absence of other white-producing genes and that extensive white on the underline was seen in the earliest registered Dexters, such as Irisine HB No. 2 and Rosemary HB No. 4. Here is a link to where you can download a full version copy of Ibsen's 1933 article: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1208413/ (It is very interesting to read what the thinking was in the early day studies of cattle inheritance and realize how much better the available information is now) Patti
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Post by cjsfarm on Aug 12, 2012 17:01:42 GMT -5
:oAfter Judy & ! had this calf, we quit using the cow's sire. She is from the same bull as CJS Socks. We have had her genotyped so she is parentage tested. She has thrown 3 excellent calves with none of them showing any white. The same year John Potter had a bull calf born with almost identical markings. We almost started a dexter breeding program using the two, but thought it would create too much controversy. Attachments:
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Post by legendrockranch on Aug 12, 2012 18:57:15 GMT -5
She's a nice looking heifer Scott! I have known several other folks that have had spotted calves.
Patti, there is a great old picture of a man standing next to a spotted Dexter bull in front of a barn, I just can't seem to find it. Do you have it to post on the forum?
Barb
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Post by cddexter on Aug 12, 2012 19:20:30 GMT -5
And, if you go back and look at the various changes to the breed standard in England, from which we all take our start, the 'white' has been an issue since Day One. there have been a number of changes to the breed standard, all to do with what's acceptable for white. Obviously this has been a bone of contention since 1892, and is still an issue. In AU, there is something called the Sheldon Triangle, to cover the excess white they were getting in the underline area. If one were to draw two diagonal lines from front legs to back, the rear triangle is where they accept white, proposed by, you guessed it, Mr. Sheldon. You can also get what I call stress white (certainly not any scientific nomenclature (haha)) which is when for whatever reason, the color doesn't bleed to the extremities, and you get white socks and sometimes a white tail (this last is common as a cream color in reds--don't confuse the two) on an animal that should otherwise be solid colored. cheers, c.
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Post by kansasdexters on Aug 12, 2012 21:36:06 GMT -5
Hi Barb, Is this the photo that you wanted? Patti
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Post by legendrockranch on Aug 12, 2012 23:18:11 GMT -5
Yes Patti that's it, thank you.
Just wanted to let people know that there has been spotted Dexters around for a very long time.
Barb
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Post by laughingllama75 on Aug 13, 2012 0:08:28 GMT -5
Oh. My. He is cute!
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Post by rawlingsdexter on Aug 13, 2012 1:07:03 GMT -5
People can (and do) register purebred Dexter cattle that have white markings. Here are some examples with photos in the ADCA Online Pedigree: FF Splash of Paint, ADCA No. 020235 www.dextercattle.org/pedigreedb/ponyweb.cgi?horse=020235&HorseName=Splash&Page=1&Sort=0CJS Socks, ADCA No. 017194 www.dextercattle.org/pedigreedb/ponyweb.cgi?horse=017194&HorseName=Socks&Page=1&Sort=0SGF STIT Blaze, ADCA No. 020128 www.dextercattle.org/pedigreedb/ponyweb.cgi?horse=020128&HorseName=Blaze&Page=1&Sort=0Because these animals are homozygous for the recessive white spotting gene, it is expressed. When bred with a Dexter that doesn't carry this gene, the offspring from that mating will carry recessive white spotting, but they won't be white spotted. Dexter breeders have a similar "broken coat color" issue with brindled Dexters. Those Dexters are red with dark tiger-like stripes -- very unique and beautiful to some, but not fitting the "breed description" which calls for a solid black, red, or dun coat color. If they meet the registration requirements (pedigreed sire and dam, sire's genotype on file), they can also be registered. Patti And the common denominator is CORNAHIR OUTLAW It is not rocket science to work out where the white comes from!!
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Post by marion on Aug 13, 2012 6:50:32 GMT -5
I cant seem to get the quote function to work. The three examples given all have multiple lines going back to Bullfinch..marion
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Post by cddexter on Aug 13, 2012 7:05:55 GMT -5
However, Barb, as you can (I hope) see, the photo is actually a shorthorn (look at the horns) with a chondro carrier ancestor. Just another example of what I'd been saying for years: in the beginning, to be a Dexter you only had to be short between the knee and fetlock. From what I remember of the Cornahir herd 20 odd years ago back before David made a major herd reduction, they didn't have any white, even in the udders.
Margaret: vidiographer's been on holiday; I have an appt with him for after work on thurs. I'll recreate the height stuff for you. All you have to do is send $$ ;D. thx. me.
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