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Post by cddexter on Mar 10, 2016 20:18:04 GMT -5
well we all know I tend to ramble, and Patti is all about provable stats. So "It's a just a guide, it's not a true breed standard." was what I started out with back about 25 years ago. As I said, England has a standard, as quoted (stats again!) by Patti, but they also have a guideline. At least we are in agreement about guidelines vs. standards. No fight. me.
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Post by cathylee on Mar 21, 2016 11:41:18 GMT -5
I certainly agree that a standard is reasonable. But there are clearly problems with a standard that would affect registration. Two standards might not be as practical as it may sound. I believe there are postings on this board of "is this or isn't this" chondro pictures of mature animals. And indeed it can be hard to tell. We don't presently have a requirement of posting or even getting chondro results for registration. Dominant genetic traits have a tendency to have variable expression or incomplete penetrance.
Calves are registered before maturity. First calf heifers aren't fully grown, so the mature height of the dam and the calf are unknown at registration.
Would a height standard apply to semen sells advertised on the ADCA and require a bull to be at an approved age with a height in that range? Not unreasonable.
Not allowing registration of a cow for reasons of height would seem extreme when she could be bred to a smaller bull and have appropriately sized offspring. So hopefully the standards would be primarily a requirement for judging at shows or sales on a breed association website. What about breeder herd certifications as acknowledgment that they are promoting the standard?
Can a breeder prevent registration of a heifer if the owner can prove by genotyping the animals parentage?
But if someone listed a bull or cow as "large" there would be a market for it. I have seen queries about large Dexters. One person was asked why they would want a large Dexter. He replied that he needed them primarily for meat and the temperament, meat characteristics, calving ease, general good vigor... work well for him.
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Post by kansasdexters on Mar 21, 2016 21:37:26 GMT -5
cathylee -
A Dexter breeder really cannot stop someone from registering a Dexter when an owner has genotyped and proved parentage (Sire and Dam Qualified) and paid for the registration. The only time that a breeder has complete control over what gets registered (or what doesn't get registered) is when the animals are in his/her herd, and which animals they decide get sold to someone else. In my own herd, we only sell ADCA registered animals, and we do the registration and transfer to the new owner. Anything that isn't good enough to be used as registered breeding stock, we process as beef and we sell it ourselves. That avoids any future issue with someone else registering an animal sold unregistered.
The one situation when we totally can't control what gets registered, is when we sell a bred cow, and she calves, and the new owner decides that they want to register that calf. That calf will have our herd prefix, since we are the breeder of the cow (we owned the cow at time of breeding), but we really have no say in whether or not it should be registered. If you understand how the tattoo IDs work, you'll immediately recognize an animal that has a breeder's herd prefix, but that was not born into that breeder's herd -- it will have the Owner's tattoo ID, not the Breeder's tattoo ID, on the registration certificate.
Patti
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zephyrhillsusan
member
Caught Dexteritis in Dec. 2009. Member of this forum since Oct. 2013.
Posts: 1,502
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Post by zephyrhillsusan on Mar 22, 2016 11:09:34 GMT -5
cathylee , I haven't heard anyone advocate a height (or weight) "requirement" for registration. I think the words "standard" and "guideline" are confusing to many, but this from the ADCA mentions "guidelines." Current registration requirements are listed here, and there's no mention of height or weight, just parentage and genotyping requirements. Your point about being able to downsize an overly-large animal through breeding is absolutely valid.
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Post by cathylee on Mar 22, 2016 18:55:44 GMT -5
cathylee , I haven't heard anyone advocate a height (or weight) "requirement" for registration. I think the words "standard" and "guideline" are confusing to many, but this from the ADCA mentions "guidelines." Current registration requirements are listed here, and there's no mention of height or weight, just parentage and genotyping requirements. I thought some had been discussing whether a standard should be enforced at some level. So I was putting in my 2 cents about what I thought was reasonable in regard to encouragement vs enforcement. Particularly noting a standard based on a dominant characteristic is hard to apply when dominant genes are notoriously variable in their penetrance and there isn't even a requirement to declare chondro status on registration.
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