Chondro carrier -- should I buy?

[lakeportfarms]

OTF, I know you probably wish you could "take it back" with that boy, but if that is an example of your "I think I'll steer him" quality you raise some mighty fine Dexters!

[Deleted]

Jun 20, 2013 17:34:30 GMT -5 otf said:

Here's one that was born here that I wish I'd kept intact to sell as a bull

Oh if I had a dollar for everytime I heard that...............

Its one of my biggest 'fears' so much so that we are in the middle of sectioning off 45 acres as the "batchelor pen". Still have to secure the boundary fencing to ensure there are no future incidents with the neighbours on either side and their bulls.

And you know how you have 'hereford bull' breeders etc - I think I would really love to be a Dexter bull breeder (except the breed will never be in the numbers to support this during my lifetime - anyways).

I really have a soft spot for the Dexter boys - dont ask me why because I dont know the answer. I love the girls just as much - but the boys...........well the 6 we have I am really drawn too from Bailey at 7 weeks of age to Bundy who is nearly two years.

[djdewetsa]

Hi

If you are a commercial farmer then NEVER.
(Chondro animals do not perform or growth like normal ones do - you will make less money)
I have done the tests - on the veld as well as in the kraal.

If you want a cow for the household YES you can buy a chondro HOWEVER never buy a chondro bull.
You can end up with a bulldog calf if both are positive for the defect gene.

Cheers
Danie

[cddexter]

wow, thanks for the great chuckle. I love pungent squares. But, probably Punnett would get you further... c.

[truth]

Hi,
Just joined I have been breeding short/long leg Dexter cattle for over 15 years. We currently have 17 short leg females . Non have arthritis or breathing problems in fact they are very healthy and fit the oldest is 15 years. They live on the west coast of the British Isles and are outdoors ayr on extensive grazing. I do have arthritis(i am not a "chondro carrier") and as a result reduced the herd this year to a more manageable size. My first dexter cow Blackberry did develop arthritis at 12 years . I put this down to her poor feet and heel walking. My next two short leg cows were much better about the feet and never developed arthritis. One of these cows Secret is the back bone of the herd to this day. My mature short leg cows are 38-40" measured rump end. I only have one mature long leg dexter she is 13 years 42" and has not got arthritis she is however pole legged.

I will try to stick to the threads but it can be difficult as much of this stuff is linked up !

It has been most interesting to read what is said on this forum I was delighted with the title "Irish Dexter Cattle"
Mike

[truth]

[truth]

hi paradise,
Just posted picture of S.M. Andrew short leg, red, pink nosed Dexter bull breed by us. He was 5 years old in this picture and 41.5" at rump. He sired many calves but suffered a near fatal injury which shortened his working life to only 10 years . His last two calves by natural service are coming up for 10 months old both short and red and pink nosed. I will try and send a picture of them. Indeed picture and chat on one post, never much good with computers, please be patient all you clever post people.

[ssimons]

Isn't CHOICE a wonderful thing? Really! We all make numerous choices every day. Why are we all involved with Dexters? We made a conscious choice, even with the known possible genetic defects that can occur , and all of the possible cattle breeds out there to choose from we still "chose" Dexters. As responsible owners we can choose to have "carriers" or not. We can choose to have all polled animals or not, even the color of our animals can be a choice, within the breed limits.
Like most choices, the choice to have chondro animals comes with consequences and responsibilities that fortunately can be intelligently managed.
I know it's not on the same level but, I thank our creator that we have choice as a gift: it gave me my wonderful wife, my good friends,  led me to Dexter cattle and the good and helpful people involved with these special creatures.

[djdewetsa]

Read that some think that chondro animals are commercially viable and the same than nonchondro

I grew up on a commercial farm. Studdied agriculture at University of the Freestate (which is internationally recognized)
I currently have + 100 Dexter females. I do farm with them commercially
I wean the calves at 6 months from the veld then put them in a feedlot for 90 days.
I work out daily weight gains. The good bulls go to test centres of ARC - Agricultural Research Centre to work out feed conversion ratios.

Chondro calves wean maybe 120kg at 6 months while nonchondro weans +170kg
In the feedlot chondro average at 1kg while the non chondro average at 1,4kg (daily weight gains without growth hormone or steroids)

I wont bullshit about this as then I will bullshit myself if the chondros worked then I would have done it.
Abbatoirs and feedlots also do not want Dexters because of the chondro - chondro animals have too small carcass and feedlots know that chondro dont grow.

The dressing after slaughter is the same average at 58% - PS this is figure from an abbattoir and not from my head.

I have some information on my website www.innovationdexters.com as well as another which is however in afrikaans.
I can give the information that is proofed to anyone that is interested or dont belief me

We have a saying in afrikaans "you can bring a horse to the water but cant make him drink - its his choice" so the water is in front of the non beliefers:)

Sorry , commercially you will make less money.
PS the meat is the same and taste the same.

[djdewetsa]

The first thing a breeder or commercial farmer must do when considering farming with cattle is to buy a livestock scale.
Then you can do the maths yourself:) No use talking how good they perform if you never had weight them.

The main idea of commercial farming is to produce beef the fastest at the lowest cost per ha.

If you sell a carrier to someone please do give them the facts and not what people think. Selling the wrong Dexter to people will be negative to the breed.

My first animals that I bought was carriers - No one told me the facts - today i would have never bought them , I had to learn it on my own.

- Hope all calves born in 2014 is NON carriers

[truth]

Dec 29, 2013 15:24:42 GMT -5 @genebo said:

Awesome looking beef animal. Is he grass fed? yes

His horns are pretty short. Do all of his line have short horns? no

I know a man in Texas that would love to have Andrew to give rides to children at rodeos.

I assume he has the typical gentlemanly temperament of a short legged Dexter bull.
yes

[lakeportfarms]

Danie,

Again you are only showing the numbers for your steers, and not the dams that had to conceive and then raise them, in your case for 6 months. In our case, we're feeding the dams through at least one full winter of hay, and our limited acreage, before that calf is ever born, and there is a cost associated with that. And then we'll likely feed that dam another winter while she's simultaneously feeding that calf and growing another calf inside of her. And the chondro carriers maintain their condition more easily in our conditions. And you still have a chance at a "full size" non-carrier even with the chondro carrier cow. If I were purchasing the steers to finish of course I would want the larger fast growing steers, but as a producer from conception to finish, I'm looking at three years worth of inputs before that steer is ready for processing.

If what you do works for you, great, keep it up, I'm not trying to change your mind. But come visit us today in Michigan in the USA (the state that looks like a mitten with all the water from the Great Lakes surrounding it) and don't forget to bring your long underwear, because we'll be -20C tonight when I go out to feed the herd. And my fat chondro carriers with their smaller surface area lose less heat than the tall skinny ones. Think of the body type the Eskimos in the arctic or Norwegians look, and think of the body type in the interior of Africa or Mediterranean countries look. Each are well adapted for their respective climates. And in our case that is large body with small extremities(legs).

[legendrockranch]

Hans, could you please explain how you know your carriers keep better body condition? Could it be that what you are seeing is the actual "effects" of chondro?

Below is taken from the ADCA's article on Chondrodysplasia

Carriers of this gene appear to be much more heavily muscled, but this is because muscle that is designed to attach to a normal bone is actually compressed onto a shortened one, causing the muscle to bulge. Carriers often show a greater spring of rib or can be potbellied because the organs retain their normal size yet must fit within the reduced skeletal framework, or drop below it.

Barb

[legendrockranch]

One other piece of information that some might find informative is linked below, Dexters are mentioned in it.

Employing Molecular Genetics of Chondrodysplasias to Inform
the Study of Osteoarthritis


Heterozygosity for 2 different aggrecan mutations has been shown to
cause Dexter cattle chondrodysplasia, characterized by
rhizomelic limb shortening and irregularities of the
vertebral bodies (31). The mutant messenger RNA
CHONDRODYSPLASIA GENES ASSOCIATED WITH AN ARTHRITIC PHENOTYPE 329
(mRNA) is subject to nonsense-mediated decay; in
heterozygous animals, the level of mutant allele mRNA
is only 7% of the level of the wild-type allele, suggesting
haploinsufficiency as the mechanism for the carrier
phenotype. Homozygosity results in the lethal “bulldog”
chondrodysplasia. Affected fetuses display extreme disproportionate
dwarfism, a short vertebral column, micromelia,
short ribs, and a cleft palate.


Below is the full article:

onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/art.24251/pdf

Barb

[legendrockranch]

Maybe it should be up to you to prove it differently.
If what is claimed is false you should write an article to disprove what is being said and have it posted on the ADCA website.
So please tell us what the "true" effects of chondro are.

Barb