Chondro carrier -- should I buy?

[lakeportfarms]

Barb, you can see the areas of fat around the tail, the rump, brisket, and other areas that you'll notice when an animal has a fairly high BCS. We run a herd of chondro cows, and a herd of non-chondro cows each with a bull. They are not mixed, even when we are confident they are bred. They are fed the exact same hay. Waste is almost identical due to our exactly the same hay saver feeders. The hay consumption of the chondro cows, even with the larger 6 year old non-chondro bull is noticeably less per animal unit than that of the non-chondro cows with a two year old chondro bull. And I run significantly more non-chondro cows per bull than I do with the chondro cows. This is not a small sample of cows, it is a fairly large sample of both types, and we also calve year round with both so this isn't a function of "chondro" open cows or heifers vs. heavy bred non chondro cows/heifers.

I can't think of a better example than this photo:

www.towerviewfarm.net/pages/cattle.html

www.towerviewfarm.net/images/cows.jpg

[legendrockranch]

Thanks for the info Hans, really liked the link also.

[djdewetsa]

Hi.
What is the weight of a carrier calf at 6 or 7 months in the US? (here non carrier is +170kg here / i try for +180kg - PROVEN)
All beef production is all most the same over the world as cattle is the same they grow fast while young and slow when old. (PROVEN)
That is why an old cow will go less per kg than a steer. Always better to feed young animals or keep young animals on the veld. (PROVEN)

What is your feed conversion ratio in the US of carrier steer - the amount of feed it eat to convert to a kg growth (here average of non carriers 5,73:1 - PROVEN)
The cattle that is kept to be slaughtered at age of 2 or 3 years is normally the cattle types that doesn't grow well and have low fcr's. (like nguni cattle (bos indicus)(PROVEN)

What is the daily weight gain of a carrier steer on the veld/field. After it is taken away from his mother? NO EXTRA FEED) (here non carriers - between 800 grams to 900 grams daily - PROVEN)
non carrier steers do gain more a day than any carrier (PROVEN)

Also abattoirs that slaughter animals gives a rating of carcass. The carrier do not get a better rating than the non carrier and is actually poorer rated than the carrier and you get less for the carcass. (PROVEN)

So to all new commercial Dexter farmers - Non Carrier Dexters will perform better on the veld or in the feedlot than any carrier Dexter. (PROVEN)

PS to say a carrier taste better than a non carrier is bullshit. The meat is the same quality. Maybe something to do with the cook. (CANT BE PROVEN)

Well back to the old age question IS the earth flat or round.

[truth]

this is how dexter bulls looked a 100 years ago

[truth]

Red Robin

[legendrockranch]

Since a lot of this thread seems to deal with carcass yields of carriers versus non-carriers. I thought I would go back and find the thread that was posted a few years back by Kansasdexters or Patti Adams.
There is a link to it posted below. Perhaps when Patti has some time she can update us with more current statistics

dextercattle.proboards.com/thread/1296/carcass-yields

Barb

[jamshundred]

Truth,

Thanks for the photo. There are many more and each of them serves to point out how far the "modern" Dexters have drifted in phenotype. In two short decades this breed has been ravaged in the US.
Just look at the photos of show animals and the lack of a breed standard to guide breeders. The " smallest breed of European cattle" has animals cavorting in the show ring that will mature 50- 55 inches in height. Look at the height of AI bulls, and do not forget that be it carrier or non-carrier most bulls will grow at least three inches between three and five years of age. I saw a photo on the front page of the UK group of a young boy with his Dexter standing less than waist high and compared it to the colossal bull in the ADCA photos whose head is about the same height as the man holding it.

I am a chondro breeder. I DO have experience of how short legs survive better than long legs. When we had a severe drought during normal pasture season a number of years ago my long legs could not hold their weight and the dwarf cattle seemed barely to notice.

Modern breeders would like to forget that the Dexter breed is a DWARF breed. To obtain small cattle that are not carriers the breed changes from a dwarf breed to a miniature breed.
Mrs. Rutherford's herd was miniaturized. They had also changed so drastically genetically they no longer compared to the Dexter breed. ( See the Cardiff report - where it is stated gently but clearly).

Dexters are not nor will they ever be a commerical breed in the states. That is why there is so much attrition in the breed, especially noticeable in the last 15 years with breeders jumping in based on the selling points from brochures of old and jumping back out with purses much lighter with the realities of the modern herd.

Thw US herd stands on the verge of disaster . .. it has entered the danger zone and whether it can be pulled back from the edge of the cliff is rather doubtful. The troubling signs are gaining in numbers.

Judy

[truth]

Hi,
My herd was/is a genetic jumble we have narrowed down to three lines that phenotype as Dexter.
The Uk has changed its standard description a few times . The std published in the 1956 herd book states for both sexes " legs short(especially from knee to fetlock),strong and well placed under body, which should be as close to the ground as possible." no height recommendations are given .


I think the "close to ground as possible" caused problems !!! Some reports speak of bulls will brisket skimming the ground . Also cows udders trailing in mud !!! not good . Not what I want or have in our herd.

Some people think chondro carrier Dexters have short backs . This is not always the case take a look at the picture of the Compton herd in Tead Neals book. Also take a look at the pictures of Sylvan Ebony first UK AI Dexter. ( no the pictures are not distorted).Long backs mean long meat muscle of expensive bits : rib eye, sirloin and fillet.

We are very supportive of people helping to keep the old bloodlines going. Never know what may be lost, perhaps even the Irish charm. Purity evaluation , what are the datums ? Perhaps we will find a Dexter preserved in a bog.

Mike

[cddexter]

Red Robin was bred by His Majesty King George 5th, born at Sandringham on April 22, 1917. His pedigree reads by Robin Adair 551FS (b.1914) out of Biddy 2094FS (b.1905). FS stands for Foundation Stock. Thus Red Robin was a first generation Dexter, with unknown ancestry (other than his sire and dam met the visual requirements for registration). Just in case anyone is interested...cheers, c.

HI Mike, just realized who you are....nice to see you here, I'm sure you'll have lots of valuable facts to share with us. Carol Davidson.

[truth]

Hi Carol,
Thanks for responding to Robin's picture you anticipated my next moves. Many Dexters originate from animals entered in the herd books by inspection in fact all of them ! if you go back far enough.
How did you make the link between the picture and the pedigree ?
LOOK FORWARD TO OPEN EXCHANGE OF INFORMATION ROUND THE WORLD, thats why I have come aboard. I will try and be a good boy !
Mike, Steepmarsh Herd

[carragheendexters]

Dec 30, 2013 15:37:28 GMT -5 @genebo said:

Check the author of that article.



Could it be that it was written by a non-chondro owner?

Hi Genebo,

The authors of this review if you actually read it, are  Australian medical researchers, and the review was published in the American College of Rheumatologist's journal.

 I very much doubt that they own non-carrier Dexters.

regards Louise

[djdewetsa]

Hi Truth
The Dexter in the pic seems to be as they say a shorty and might be a carrier or maybe not - in those days they did not know about the chondro gene - they didnt know it was the gene that cause the dwarfism and the dead calves.

I have nothing against a short leg Dexter that do not have the carrier gene. To breed a short leg Dexter without the carrier gene is true breeding and I take my hat of for that breeder.

Cheers
Danie

[cddexter]

Hi Mike:

I'm lucky enough (or is it anal???) to have a full set of DCS herd books, and the early RDS books, plus I also have a copy of David's original journal where he entered all the birth notices, and from which he built the Herd Books while he was Secretary. Bill Butcher started the journal, and passed it on, so I have records that predate herd books. This means if there's a spelling or other mistake in the Herd Book, I have the original file to refer back to for true accuracy. When David left, he took everything with him. Ros Stollard was trying to replace him but with nothing more than a supermarket bag of one year's worth of birth notices. I made a copy of his journal for her, and that's what kept her--and I guess for a while, the Society--going. Every breed society seems to go through it; the US twice, Canada once, England several times now, and AU twice, too. I just keep hoping that when I give up my files, it can be to somewhere they won't end up hostage to ego.

cheers, me.

[truth]

Danie,
How do you know people in the time of Red Robin had no knowledge of the "chondro gene" ?
Mike

[truth]

Hi Carol,
Have you considered having all your herd books and notes scanned and made into an electronic data base ? Such a data base would not be anal and would solve the hostage problem if it was available to everyone.
You will not have a 1969 DCS (UK) herd book ?

New Year started with a new heifer, is it chondro ? even after years of calves it is still guess work. I will have to send some hairs to the lab. At least I am sure it is black no black ones have turned red yet.
Happy New Year