Characteristics we use to pick chondro.

[carragheendexters]

I couldn't find photos to show exactly what I mean but did find 2 that do show the difference in the forequarters and the look of the brisket between chondro and non chondro.

The first photo is a non-chondro cow and the 2nd is a chondro cow.

There is a look of more space between the front legs around the brisket, and a wider gap between the knees. From point of shoulder to the knee there is a look of curved muscle, a little bulging of the muscle.The knees and the fetlocks appear to be more rounded and more pronounced.

In these photos the difference in the size of the barrel is really obvious as well. the non-chondro cow does have a large barrel but with the angle of the photo you can't see it. I think now looking at these photos and thinking about it, chondros may also have a more rounded barrel right down to the brisket area whereas non-chondro tend to flatten off a bit .

Does anyone want to add anything else that they can see that is obvious between the 2 types in these 2 photos?

[zephyrhillsusan]

Louise, all I can see is the brisket and legs on both photos. I tried dragging them onto my desktop, and that's still all that shows up.

[zephyrhillsusan]

@genebo, it's an exercise in learning to sharpen our eyes and learn more about our cattle from those with more experience.  Here's my comment from another thread:

genebo, it's a game for fun and learning. I posted a game, too, in the thread Is he or isn't he--chondro positive? I tested mine, and he was positive. But it's fun to play the guessing game, and I learned a lot from peoples' comments on my thread, as I'm learning from this one and the thread Louise just posted. We all know you can't tell just by looking, but you can get better at visual evaluation by learning from others.

Read more: dextercattle.proboards.com/thread/4196/short#ixzz36zJl7PN6

I called it a game in the other post, and it is fun, but it's really all about learning.  Louise is very thorough in testing her animals, but she also knows a LOT about them just by looking.  She would never base a breeding decision on a visual examination, but she has helped me learn a lot about how to detect a chondro positive calf.  For instance, when I posted the thread "Is he or isn't he?," Louise and Hans both picked up on the fact that our calf is chondro positive.  The one specific thing to look for that I learned from Loiuise was the wide spread of the front legs compared to non-chondro calves.  I knew about leg length, but it's not always easy to tell in a growing calf.  I knew about dished noses and face shape, short necks, etc.  But looking at the spread of the front legs and looking down from above to compare the general width are both things I learned from Hans and Louise's input on my post.  

I'm sure they would both chime in here with me and advocate ALWAYS testing before breeding! Knowing that many people who aren't fully educated on chondro frequent this site, I was careful to say in my original thread that I planned to pull tail hairs (perhaps I should have been even clearer and added "for testing"):

Of course we'll pull tail hairs, but I thought it would be fun to play the "is he or isn't he" game with those of you who have more experience.


Read more: dextercattle.proboards.com/thread/4112/chondro-positive#ixzz36zMmnvvV

For the record, let me say that I pulled tail hairs for testing and posted the results on the thread.  The calf was chondro positive, for any who don't follow the links.

To me, this "game" is really a great learning exercise, just like critiquing udders.  No one is saying whether a particular cow with an udder shown in a photo should be bred or not or whether she's a good milk producer or whether she gives A2 milk or not--we're just learning how to evaluate udder form.  This is the same; we're learning.

[carragheendexters]

Jul 9, 2014 9:54:23 GMT -5 zephyrhillsusan said:

Louise, all I can see is the brisket and legs on both photos. I tried dragging them onto my desktop, and that's still all that shows up.

Oh, I really was tired last night. It was 1am and I had just gotten home from a 5 hour horror drive from the coast. I wrote what I was thinking not what I was looking at

 No time right now butI will get back to it and edit my post to make more sense . Sorry!

[carragheendexters]

Jul 9, 2014 10:23:21 GMT -5 @genebo said:

Test, don't guess.

Of course their tested, and by the way the one on the left is free of BD2.

For goodness sake, lighten up, don't be such a grump! We're all just having fun, learning while you have some fun is great. Educators say that is the best way to learn.

[wagradexters]

Jul 9, 2014 18:36:46 GMT -5 carragheendexters said:

Jul 9, 2014 10:23:21 GMT -5 @genebo said:

Test, don't guess.

Of course their tested, and by the way the one on the left is free of BD2.

For goodness sake, lighten up, don't be such a grump! We're all just having fun, learning while you have some fun is great. Educators say that is the best way to learn.

Louise, the point has not been made on the BD2 topic that an animal can not have both and survive. The animal may be hetero for BD1 and hetero BD2 (the extra Au & NZ chondro) but it is then just as homozygous for chondro as if it were homozygous for either, ie bulldog.

[wagradexters]

Jul 9, 2014 19:20:37 GMT -5 wagradexters said:

Jul 9, 2014 18:36:46 GMT -5 carragheendexters said:

Of course their tested, and by the way the one on the left is free of BD2.

For goodness sake, lighten up, don't be such a grump! We're all just having fun, learning while you have some fun is great. Educators say that is the best way to learn.

Louise, just a thought, the point has not been made on the BD2 topic that an animal can not have both and survive. The animal may be hetero for BD1 and hetero BD2 (the extra Au & NZ chondro) but it is then just as homozygous for chondro as if it were homozygous for either, ie bulldog.
Margaret W

[cddexter]

You might move this thread to LONG LIVE DEXTERS. I did an extensive post there with all the things I've noticed over the years, nose to tail. It's called DWARF ID and is pinned at the top of the topic. Great to have added input.

Genebo, have you figured out yet they're on to you?

Cheers, c.

[Olga]

Negative, positive, negative ( I'm conflicted on that one, could be due to camera angle).

[zephyrhillsusan]

CIA could be proportional positive (comparing the front cannon bones to my animals'). Dun girl positive. Beauty could be positive (based on how her head looks, or it could be the camera angle). It would be interesting to see photos of all three like the ones Louise posted showing the width across the brisket area.

[lakeportfarms]

Here are a few challenging ones for those of you who are afraid to guess...lol

2-1/2 year old bull, Sheril in the photo is 5'2"


6 month old steer




5 year old cow:

[lakeportfarms]

I haven't tested the steer by the way, so I can't confirm if he's condro positive or negative

[zephyrhillsusan]

Hmm, I'm going out on a limb here. I'm going to guess they're all . . . bovines!

[emgiger]

Hans,

Just curious……who is the cow in the last picture? She is very pretty.


Eileen

[cddexter]

hans, is that the same cow from last year only carrying a LOT less weight? c.