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Post by kansasdexters on Jul 21, 2015 16:48:38 GMT -5
RedRidge (Sheri), What Legacy has done is to copy the information on animals registered in the ADCA, practically the whole online pedigree. I don't test or register with Legacy, but 52 of my animals are now in the Legacy database without my knowledge or permission. Here is the link: www.legacydextercattleregistry.com/an_results.phpSince the ADCA Online pedigree is "all rights reserved" and "unauthorized duplication prohibited", this is a direct violation and may be subject to legal action. Patti
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Post by midhilldexters on Jul 21, 2015 17:02:58 GMT -5
Judy, With permission from John Potter to ask this here, he would like to know where you got his genotypes from??? Particularly the one for Darcie, who was only born in April of this year and is still at his farm?? How on earth could you have that genotype?
Carol K
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Post by J & M Chambers on Jul 21, 2015 18:37:41 GMT -5
I just heard about this and I thought there might be some discussion of it here. And what to my wondering surprise... Very, very bizarre. I've got 40 animals listed there but why is beyond me. I can't quite figure out the rational for some but not all of our herd, seems random. But what am I thinking, there is nothing rational about any of this. "I could while away the hours..." Jeff
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zephyrhillsusan
member
Caught Dexteritis in Dec. 2009. Member of this forum since Oct. 2013.
Posts: 1,502
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Post by zephyrhillsusan on Jul 21, 2015 18:42:20 GMT -5
www.legacydextercattleregistry.com/an_results.php?order=regno&aname=%25SGF%25&offset=100&submitBrGo=GoThis is the link to John Potter's animals in the Legacy database showing the purple highlighting which the Legacy website says means: In addition to the ones Barb and Patti mentioned above, there are 9 pages of John Potter's animals in the Legacy database. I will be checking to see if mine turn up because I have never genotyped or tested through Legacy, and Legacy does not have my permission to post my animals. Sorry, Jeff, if mine turn up I won't be smiling about it. One thing I have always assured people of, is that when they test with VGL and register with the ADCA, their genotypes and test information are PRIVATE! How this can have happened is beyond me!
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Post by J & M Chambers on Jul 21, 2015 20:37:46 GMT -5
Zephyrhillsusan, I'm smiling because from my perspective this is comical but not without just a tinge melancholy.
Not a slam on you just a point of clarification: I sell genetics and an animal's genetic fingerprint through a genotype is not some substantively meaningful information other than a means to p.v. so keeping them private is counter productive - and even if it were substantive -see next point. As far as genetic trait / defect testing goes; what we sell is genetics so keeping such information private is again counter productive. You know all we can reasonably provide you genetically about our stock and everyone else does as well because that is the business of a seed stock producer.
BTW I did not see any genotypes or genetic trait / fault testing for my animals available on the "Bogarting" site. Only listing of the animals, some with DOB some without... cue the Twilight Zone theme.
Whether this may have violated the law/s is beyond my ken and for others to discern and that aspect of this is in no way worthy of smiles.
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zephyrhillsusan
member
Caught Dexteritis in Dec. 2009. Member of this forum since Oct. 2013.
Posts: 1,502
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Post by zephyrhillsusan on Jul 21, 2015 21:51:09 GMT -5
I understand your point, J & M Chambers. I'm not a privacy freak about this. However, this bothers me because I know some people are concerned about privacy (which is their right). Some people have actually hesitated to send test results to the ADCA for PV because of that. During the discussions we have had on this board, among others, I have repeated to them what I have been assured of, which is that those genotypes are private. So it bugs me because of that. If I sell an animal, I give a copy of the genotype to its new owner. I publish my test results on my website along with links to the ADCA pedigrees. I don't mind those results being known, but I VERY MUCH mind someone who has no right to my animals' pedigrees publishing them on their website. And that makes me VERY angry! I waited until I confirmed from the breeder that she has never tested or listed my cow with Legacy before I posted this. Although neither of us have ever sent my cow's information to Legacy, NewHope Ebony Belle is listed on the Legacy website along with her pedigree. The only place Ebony has been registered is with the ADCA, which is where you will find her rightful pedigree. Note the bottom line on the ADCA pedigree page: "All rights reserved. Unauthorized duplication prohibited." My cow has never been added to the Legacy database by either her breeder or me, so why is her pedigree on the Legacy website, displayed as if it were copyrighted by Legacy? This is extremely disturbing.
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Post by lakeportfarms on Jul 21, 2015 22:25:45 GMT -5
Susan, how do you know that the "All rights reserved" Unauthorized duplication prohibited" does not refer to the pedigree software by Capable Computing? After all it does follow the "Pedigree search engine designed and developed by Capable Computing, Inc." sentence and doesn't specifically reference the ADCA.
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zephyrhillsusan
member
Caught Dexteritis in Dec. 2009. Member of this forum since Oct. 2013.
Posts: 1,502
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Post by zephyrhillsusan on Jul 21, 2015 22:54:13 GMT -5
The statement says the "Pedigree search engine" was designed by Capable Computing. You can't copy or "duplicate" a search engine. I think it's pretty clear that the "all rights reserved" and "unauthorized duplication prohibited" refer to the content.
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Post by cddexter on Jul 21, 2015 23:20:12 GMT -5
Judy: when you say there is a genotype on file, are you referring generically, or do you mean YOU have a copy of the genotype on file in YOUR database? Please clarify before people have a meltdown over breach of privacy??? thx, c.
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Post by lakeportfarms on Jul 22, 2015 6:08:46 GMT -5
The statement says the "Pedigree search engine" was designed by Capable Computing. You can't copy or "duplicate" a search engine. I think it's pretty clear that the "all rights reserved" and "unauthorized duplication prohibited" refer to the content.
Susan, sure you can. There are frequent lawsuits pertaining to the look and feel of software programs. It's also possible for experienced software developers to "get under the hood" and make changes to the program without the consent of the original developer. Barb Netti: (Who started this whole outrage du jour) The ADCA pedigree database is loaded with examples of Dexters registered in another registry, primarily the DCS, that were never registered with the ADCA, and their owners were never members of the ADCA. I was just posting the one as an example. I don't understand why there is all this fuss over having your Dexter listed in another pedigree database. It's not like Judy sent you a bill to have it included. As far as the genotype, I also don't understand why there is all the secrecy.
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Post by legendrockranch on Jul 22, 2015 7:17:08 GMT -5
Why do I get the feeling that Hans you might have had your hands involved in this?
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Post by RedRidge on Jul 22, 2015 7:45:10 GMT -5
Ok, question... if I have animal A, who I own, and animal A has calf B, who I own. If I register calf B With legacy, then I would think the entire pedigree begins that calf would be entered in the database regardless of who owns or owned all those previous generations. Am I wrong?
I guess I'm not understanding the problem. It's just data folks. And having it, free of charge, in multiple places doesn't change the public access status of that data. Don't get me wrong, I'm more "off grid private" than most. But I can't help but think I'm either missing something here or it's just not a big deal that's being blown out of proportion. The one thing I do know... I'm thrilled I don't have a dog in this fight or enough information to take sides. Lol
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Post by legendrockranch on Jul 22, 2015 7:56:23 GMT -5
I will pose this question to you Sheri, what if animal A is a heifer or bull calf and has never produced an offspring or left your farm. Than all of a sudden shows up in another registry? The ADCA is aware of this and is working on solving this issue, and yes it "IS" an issue.
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zephyrhillsusan
member
Caught Dexteritis in Dec. 2009. Member of this forum since Oct. 2013.
Posts: 1,502
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Post by zephyrhillsusan on Jul 22, 2015 8:27:52 GMT -5
@redridge, the issue is that Ebony has had three calves. I contacted her breeder, owner of her first calf, and no one has "registered" either Ebony or one of her calves with Legacy, so that is not how her pedigree appeared there. The issue is that these pedigrees are appearing on the Legacy site without permission. Period. Whether or not it may *possibly benefit* someone to have more information out there on their animal, this information has been copied from the ADCA database without permission from the ADCA or the owners. The ADCA site says "ALL" rights reserved, and that clearly includes the information on the page.
This thread was started by someone who is distressed at the confusion arising because of having two or three Dexter registries. The confusion has just shot off the charts. Legacy has just been proclaimed on this thread as a "unique" cattle registry. It's not so unique if the animals in it were added by having their information copied from another registry.
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Post by RedRidge on Jul 22, 2015 8:35:22 GMT -5
Hmmm... I guess as long as the information associated with that animal is all accurate and acquired from a public site that isn't protected, I'd have no problem with it. With the advent of the Internet and information availability, I would think I would be worn out trying to limit any information that concerns me to only one place on the Web. That said, if it were information I didn't want people to have access to, I wouldn't put it on the Web to begin with. Therein lies the real problem... information sharing. This has caused more and more people to be clammed up I believe.
Course we're one of "those" affected by the national security hack for people with clearances I'm sure you've heard about in the news, so let's just say we have much bigger fish to fry. Kind of puts things in perspective if you know what I mean. ;-)
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