zephyrhillsusan
member
Caught Dexteritis in Dec. 2009. Member of this forum since Oct. 2013.
Posts: 1,502
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Post by zephyrhillsusan on Jul 24, 2015 10:21:48 GMT -5
To answer your question, hollydzie, I'll quote myself from page 2 of this thread: To answer your question about VGL results being private, in principle they are. I have always assumed they are. In fact, VGL won't even let anyone PV a calf using someone else's animal's genotype unless the owner has given them the Case Number to use. (TAMU, on the other hand, has PVd my calves on the basis of me listing an AI sire who was in their database.) My cow that is listed on Legacy does not have purple font saying her genotype is on file with Legacy, but other animals that were not entered by their owners do have that notation. For AI sires the obvious explanation is that Legacy purchased a straw and had it genotyped. For cows that spent their entire lives on one farm, I can't come up with any satisfactory explanation for how that occurred. I agree that a "world" Dexter pedigree project could be interesting, but only if it were done legally and ethically with the cooperation of ALL entities and with full credit given to those entities, along with links to their registries.
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Post by legendrockranch on Jul 24, 2015 11:00:40 GMT -5
The idea having all of the Dexter pedigrees, from all countries in the world, connected and accessible within a single website may actually be a very good idea, Sorry but I have to disagree. I just don't feel that a single Dexter pedigree site can keep up with all the data entry of several registries. I'm sure there would be lag time. So while you looking at the one single world pedigree site thinking the information you're seeing is correct, it may not be. What would be the purpose of having a registery from each country than?
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Post by kansasdexters on Jul 24, 2015 11:07:37 GMT -5
Barb - The way that it might work best would be if each registry was directly linked into a centralized website. That way, the data would automatically be updated as new registrations were added in any of the linked registries. If corrections were made or updates made to any of the pedigrees, those would also be current. Each registry would be maintained by its respective country, and then simply linked into a "world Dexter pedigree" site. This would have to be a joint effort done by the contributing registries.
Patti
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Post by legendrockranch on Jul 24, 2015 11:11:53 GMT -5
A registry directly linked into a centralized website would be a nightmare. Just look at all of the people that would have access to it. Heck just look at whats going on with one registry. Again I ask "What would be the purpose of having a registry from each country than?"
Added Later. Judy is trying to reinvent the wheel with her being the main driver. If this is such a great idea than why haven't other breed organizations done this?
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Post by cddexter on Jul 24, 2015 12:34:33 GMT -5
Hans, a Janus reply. And before you get excited about being compared to a god, I was referring to the two-faced aspect...c.
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Post by kansasdexters on Jul 24, 2015 12:39:07 GMT -5
Barb - The ADCA, DCS, PDCA, CLRC, and other Dexter registries are already online and accessible to the public (so everyone already has access to the pedigree information). Having a centralized website that could link all of the registry online pedigrees seamlessly, world-wide, would greatly simplify pedigree searchs and research. That would be the main advantage of doing something like this. As more information is inputted into each registry (such as genetic test results), it would also facilitate the study of Dexter genetics on a world-wide scale. It has potential in the future for improving and facilitating the shared knowledge of the breed on an international scale. But it would take the ongoing cooperation of several Dexter cattle registries to accomplish this successfully.
Patti
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Post by legendrockranch on Jul 24, 2015 12:46:09 GMT -5
As I mentioned earlier, if this is such a great idea, than why haven't other breed organization done it.
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Post by kansasdexters on Jul 24, 2015 13:05:03 GMT -5
There are plenty of great ideas that haven't been accomplished by anyone yet! That's what gives each new generation something to strive for and finally accomplish! The internet wasn't even a possibility at one time, but look at how rapidly its use (and abuse) has grown in just our lifetime. Never say never, because the future holds much promise and many challenges for those that come after us.
Patti
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Post by legendrockranch on Jul 24, 2015 13:17:28 GMT -5
Optimism is great isn't it Patti meant affectionately
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Post by ssrdex on Jul 24, 2015 16:31:05 GMT -5
I think what some here may be upset about is not the idea that their information is out there, but where "out there" is. It's not just a privacy issue. In other words, it's an issue of affiliation. When we (South Sutter Ranch) decided we didn't care for some of the opinions expressed, or the way they are expressed, from Legacy, we chose to end our business relationship. We also decided we couldn't put someone of such self-proclaimed high character through the process of sending us a certificate that stated our animal was a "Dexter", when she truly believes it's just an out-crossed mongrel mutt. Didn't seem right. Legacy has every right to these opinions, & they can be proclaimed from every mountaintop for all I care, but I & others also have the right not to affiliate with Legacy...at least that's what we thought. The cattle we tested through Legacy are one thing, but any cattle not genotyped through Legacy probably shouldn't be borrowed without permission. The idea of competition has been touted as such a good thing by Legacy. Why would the ADCA, the "competition", knowingly give it's customers' information to Legacy? It seems to me that the ADCA would have had to have agreed to do just that for this to be legal, but that's jmo. Also, if I am in favor of having just ONE registry, because I think it's best for Dexter cattle & their owners, & that happens to be the ADCA, why would I want to help the competition fill in pedigree holes with my animals? Again, I think we should have the right NOT to be affiliated with certain organizations, as often times we are judged by our affiliations. Anyone could be going through the Legacy registry & assume animals are there by breeder/owner choice, therefore breeder/owner must agree with Legacy propaganda. Guilty by association. To directly answer the direct question of the original post, I see no need for alternative or competing associations. While I'm sure some egos got stroked along the way, the end result will only be that animals are lost.
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Post by Cascade Meadows Farm - Kirk on Jul 24, 2015 17:20:25 GMT -5
You could prevent it by granting access to the pedigree page to ADCA members only. Make it private, not public information. Do a Google search for your name. I don't grant sites like Intellius the right to publish my personal information either, as an example. But they gather it from public records, etc. Those are your choices. Those are NOT the only choices. Truly public records are truly owned by the public and they are not copyrighted, and anyone can use them and copy them. So you can't stop someone from copying and publishing that non-copyrighted publicly owned data. ADCA pedigree records are NOT public records... instead, they are privately owned copyrighted records shared with the public for viewing by the public. The ADCA is free to share their private data for VIEWING by the public, AND yet, they can still maintain copy RIGHT privileges.... So the public can view the records, but can NOT copy and republish the records, without permission. According to Federal Courts' interpretation of the law, you CAN publish an HTML link to someone's copyrighted data (without permission), but you can NOT grab a copy of the copyrighted data and directly publish that copyrighted data on another website without permission. The owner does NOT need to lock the data down to keep you from copying and republishing the data.
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zephyrhillsusan
member
Caught Dexteritis in Dec. 2009. Member of this forum since Oct. 2013.
Posts: 1,502
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Post by zephyrhillsusan on Jul 24, 2015 19:37:02 GMT -5
Well said!
Let me also state the obvious--limiting the viewing of ADCA pedigrees to members would not have changed anything in this particular situation.
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Post by RedRidge on Jul 25, 2015 8:50:34 GMT -5
Barb - The way that it might work best would be if each registry was directly linked into a centralized website. That way, the data would automatically be updated as new registrations were added in any of the linked registries. If corrections were made or updates made to any of the pedigrees, those would also be current. Each registry would be maintained by its respective country, and then simply linked into a "world Dexter pedigree" site. This would have to be a joint effort done by the contributing registries. Patti Oh Patti, this is an excellent idea!
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Post by cddexter on Jul 25, 2015 19:28:29 GMT -5
Sheri, don't get too excited. If such a thing existed, it probably would be for recognized genuine registries and wouldn't include judy's private database. Further, I doubt an international group would encourage participation of someone who thinks 99% of the world Dexter population are unworthy mongrel mutts, and says so at every opportunity. And, given the topic here, the international community would probably worry Judy would hijack the records and then claim them as her own. cheers, c.
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Post by carragheendexters on Jul 25, 2015 21:06:06 GMT -5
Yes, that would be correct. DCAI here in Australia does not recognise Legacy as an authorised registry. To be honest, Legacy is just a database of pedigrees which anyone can do, if they wish to and had the time and inclination. A recognised registry is an association with a voted in by the members controlling body. I would think also that DCS would not recognise legacy as a registry either.
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