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Post by Cascade Meadows Farm - Kirk on Jul 22, 2015 19:06:26 GMT -5
#1 reason we have 3 registries: Individual registrars who became MARRIED to the job and got too big for their britches and they helped cause a split that just happened to provide jobs for themselves.
That's why it's so very critical for a member-elected board to be able to terminate and replace registrars, at will, to make certain the registry has no undue dependency on a particular individual registrar.
Again, the ADCA is the ONLY American Dexter registry that has a member-elected board that can freely replace the registrar at any time to assure that the registry doesn't become dependent on an individual registrar. Registrars should be paid staff who simply follow written procedures. Registrars should make NO independent decisions about anything at all, they should simply execute the written procedures and be paid fairly for their work, and should be ready to find other work if they are terminated.
The other two failing registries almost seem to be "proud" of their heavy dependency on individual long-time registrars who put those registries at risk.
The ADCA is the ONLY (American) Dexter registry with a member-elected board, AND an easily replaceable paid professional registrar who simply follows procedures set by the member-elected board. That's why the ADCA will be around 10, 20, 30, 40 years from now, and the others won't.
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Post by kansasdexters on Jul 22, 2015 22:39:13 GMT -5
jenneyacres, if I understand you correctly this is no problem at all. Your current animals are all registered with PDCA. You dont need to register them with the ADCA. All you need to do is genotype your current sire and the resulting offspring can be registered with the ADCA. There is an unresolved issue that is exacerbated when a PDCA sire is genotyped and the genotype is submitted to the ADCA, but the PDCA registered sire is not registered with the ADCA. His offspring can be registered with the ADCA but their pedigrees are shown in the ADCA Online Pedigree and on their ADCA registration certificate with only the Sire's name and PDCA number (since he isn't registered in the ADCA). The same goes for a PDCA dam that isn't registered in the ADCA, but her offspring are. This is what it looks like when this happens: www.dextercattle.org/pedigreedb/ponyweb.cgi?horse=024391&ParentID=P201793&Page=1&Sort=6www.dextercattle.org/pedigreedb/ponyweb.cgi?horse=023651&ParentID=P203638&Page=1&Sort=6The reason this happens is because the PDCA certificate is submitted for the record of the sire (or the dam) and it only has PDCA registration numbers on it. The ADCA registrar doesn't have the information needed (if only a PDCA certificate is sent in) in order to "tie-back" to ADCA registration numbers for the ancestors in that pedigree (even though they may exist in the ADCA registry with ADCA numbers). So if the breeder/owner doesn't know to submit that information, it doesn't get entered without a lot of extra (unpaid) investigation work done by the ADCA registrar. It isn't a normal registration. This has also created duplicate entries in the ADCA registry (an animal gets entered into the ADCA registry with its PDCA number, then later on, someone pays to register it so that it has an ADCA number; or it already has an ADCA number, but the person trying to register its offspring submits the PDCA certificate instead of giving the ADCA number). When the PDCA started its registry (which was based on the ADCA registry records that existed in 2004), the PDCA registrar kept the ADCA registration numbers for the older ancestors, but used a different numbering system and created PDCA registration numbers that were unique to the PDCA registry database for many Dexters that were already ADCA registered. Then, as people submitted registration applications in the PDCA, the PDCA registration numbers were used exclusively. So, after several generations, the ADCA numbers didn't show up on the PDCA pedigrees and there was no quick and easy way to "tie-back" to the ADCA registration numbers. The simplest solution is to have one registry, with one registration numbering system, and all in one database. That is what we wanted to do with our Dexter herd -- so we register only in the ADCA. When we sell registered breeding stock, we do the transfer for the buyer, and we always do the transfer in the ADCA. Patti
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Post by dexterfarm on Jul 23, 2015 10:17:00 GMT -5
The ADCA should be pulling the rest of the info from the PDCA. Any of them that I have done this way I have sent complete copies in along with the registrations to make it as easy as possible for the register and mine have always been filled in complete. yes the pdca ones dont have the complete details but they do have the names and registration numbers. If you want to see the details on any of those other animals in the pedigree simple enough just go to the pdca web site and look them up.
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Post by kansasdexters on Jul 23, 2015 11:17:28 GMT -5
Mike,
The problem with just having the name of the animal is that different spellings may have been entered into the PDCA registry. If the ADCA registrar does a search in the ADCA registry database using just the name given on the PDCA pedigree certificate, she may get "There were no matches for your search criteria." and then she assumes that the animal is not in the ADCA registry. However, many times, the animal is in the ADCA registry under a slightly different spelling of its name. Here's an example (two entries made for the same cow, the correct name spelling is Liza Muirstead):
Name ADCA# Sire Gender Color Birth Date Lisa Muirstead P201280 Fabian Muirstead S 0000-00-00 Liza Muirstead 14563 Fabian Muirstead C Black 2003-03-28
When the ADCA registrar makes a new registration entry, she has to enter an ADCA registration number of the sire and of the dam, in order to properly tie-back to the animal's ancestors in the ADCA pedigree database. When she doesn't have an ADCA registration number, she has to create a place in the database for that animal and then attempt to manually connect it to its correct ancestors. This is a time consuming and arduous task, it is not the same task as a normal registration.
Patti
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zephyrhillsusan
member
Caught Dexteritis in Dec. 2009. Member of this forum since Oct. 2013.
Posts: 1,502
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Post by zephyrhillsusan on Jul 23, 2015 12:48:29 GMT -5
That's very interesting, kansasdexters. It explains some of the things I've wondered about, like the blank spaces in an animal's pedigree or the zeroes for the birthdate. Of course, there might be other situations that could cause the same thing, but at least I now have an idea why.
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Post by cddexter on Jul 23, 2015 20:11:18 GMT -5
And the most experienced Dexter registrar in the world, when employed by the ADCA, accepted whatever the owner submitted without correction. Thus you get WP xxx, W P xxx, W.P. xxx, Whispering Pines xxx, all from the same herd; there were two separate Colorado herds, (and because of different registration requirements) Rose, Farnsworth Rose and Hiyu Rose: all one and the same cow. The same regitrar also changed the names if she thought they were too long (more than 21 characters, not including spaces), and used her own version without consulting the owner, which also resulted in various spellings and shortened versions. Mind you, if it was someone she liked, or who put up a fuss, she'd register anything you wanted, despite being over-length, and it seemed to work out just fine. These examples are above and beyond the mis-spellings.
The same thing was done with birth dates. Patti and (can't remember) spent hours checking records and correcting the on-line pedigree to fix errors. I only wish there'd been a notation somewhere that the info had been updated, so the discrepancies between the printed herd books and the on-line pedigree were flagged.
And color: at first the most experienced Dexter registrar in the world refused to register duns and called them all red, then she changed it to red/dunn (confusing Dunn and Bradstreet spelling with the color 'dun', then started using red or dun. Once a test was available for red, she would only register as red if there was a dna result on file, or she thought both parents carried red. If you refused to test, she'd register your red animal as dun, even if she knew she had it wrong...
It's no wonder there is trouble matching animals. No genuine registrar is going to spend hours sleuthing through records trying to get a match. I'll be if the ADCA charged extra for all the time, there'd be an even bigger squawk about costs.
cheers, c.
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Post by hollydzie on Jul 23, 2015 21:20:22 GMT -5
This is really disturbing all of my animals are in her registry. I would have never thought to look except that I read about it on here. Not sure what will come of this but is certainly doesn't seem right to me??
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Post by cddexter on Jul 23, 2015 21:37:44 GMT -5
No sweat, Holly, check your own records for errors, send in corrections, and you'll be just fine. cheers, c.
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zephyrhillsusan
member
Caught Dexteritis in Dec. 2009. Member of this forum since Oct. 2013.
Posts: 1,502
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Post by zephyrhillsusan on Jul 23, 2015 22:49:03 GMT -5
hollydzie, I think by "her registry" you mean Legacy, not the former registrar that cddexter was referring to, right? I recommend you write or email the ADCA president to let him know your animals are included without your permission and to express your concerns. That's what I did.
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Post by hollydzie on Jul 24, 2015 7:36:52 GMT -5
Yes I am referring to Legacy. My animals born on my property registered by me with the ADCA. They were tested through UC Davis, but NOT through Legacy. Do you think that Judy is able to get any of the information from UC Davis or is that not possible?
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Post by midhilldexters on Jul 24, 2015 8:34:41 GMT -5
Hey Holly, nothing would surprise me anymore but hopefully not. I am also floored that someone that "blows their own bugle" so much about their "character" is thinking it's ok to do what they have done, and who won't show their face and answer the questions posed to them.
Carol K
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Post by kansasdexters on Jul 24, 2015 8:54:58 GMT -5
hollydzie - The only test results that Legacy has access to at UC-Davis VGL are the test results that are processed through Legacy testing service. UC-Davis VGL emails those test results to Legacy testing service, and provides on-line access only to that portion of the UC-Davis VGL database related to those test results; Legacy doesn't have access to the entire UC-Davis VGL database. The same situation exists with test results that are processed by UC-Davis VGL and sent to the ADCA when the owner of the test uses an affiliation code, the ADCA doesn't have access to the entire UC-Davis VGL database.
Patti
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Post by hollydzie on Jul 24, 2015 8:58:54 GMT -5
So do all of you have animals that are now in Judy's data base? If I had not seen this post and actually checked I would not have known anything about it. If your animals are there does it bother you? Just curious?
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Post by kansasdexters on Jul 24, 2015 9:09:54 GMT -5
What concerns me is that massive amounts of ADCA online pedigree data have been used without the knowledge or permission of the ADCA. The idea having all of the Dexter pedigrees, from all countries in the world, connected and accessible within a single website may actually be a very good idea, but doing this without the permission and knowledge of each registry is not a good idea. A world Dexter pedigree project could have been (and may still be) a wonderful team effort, showcasing cooperation between all of the Dexter registries, instead it comes off here as grandstanding and information piracy by a single individual.
Patti
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Post by lakeportfarms on Jul 24, 2015 10:10:35 GMT -5
You could prevent it by granting access to the pedigree page to ADCA members only. Make it private, not public information.
Do a Google search for your name. I don't grant sites like Intellius the right to publish my personal information either, as an example. But they gather it from public records, etc.
Those are your choices.
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